Suppliers for ATF+4

[amsoilman]

My intent is NOT to BASH Amsoil but, if it isnt supported by the guys that hold my warranty, it will NEVER see my truck. Trans oil or crankcase! Also. No one in their right state of mind would ever leave ANY oil in their motor for 15000 miles that I know. Paying the $40 for a lube oil and filter change along with chacking all my other fluids and NOT GETTING MY HANDS DIRTY, is worth the peace of mind, knowing that my oil is as described in the service manuel and knowing that the dealer has record that the work was done should there ever be a problem down the road.

My dealer has no problems with me using the Amsoil products... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... they even use it!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[KBertetto]

My intent is NOT to BASH Amsoil but, if it isnt supported by the guys that hold my warranty, it will NEVER see my truck. Trans oil or crankcase! Also. No one in their right state of mind would ever leave ANY oil in their motor for 15000 miles that I know. Paying the $40 for a lube oil and filter change along with chacking all my other fluids and NOT GETTING MY HANDS DIRTY, is worth the peace of mind, knowing that my oil is as described in the service manuel and knowing that the dealer has record that the work was done should there ever be a problem down the road.

I agree with your statement about the 15k oil change... but I must point out that my owners manual calls for 15k oil changes. I use AMSOIL 15-40 Diesel/Marine oil every 5k... couldn't be happier. I just sent in a sample about a week ago and will post the results when I get them. As far as ATF goes, I used the AMSOIL Universal in my 97... was in there for approximately 80k before I sold it, all was good. Just my 2 rusty cents.



Bert

 

[Bob4x4]

Unlike motor oils, which are tied to API and SAE specs, ATF has to meet the OEM specs to which the ATF is going to be used in.



In the case of Ford Mercon for example, "Flash Point", "Brookfield Viscositties", "NOAK Volitility", (ABOT) "Aluminum Beaker Oxidation Test", "Friction Durability Evaluation tests" are all used to determine if the ATF fluid will meet/exceed the Ford Mercon requirement.



GM as well as Chrysler uses some of these same tests, but have differing limits.



Just to show you some of the mercon requirements for the ABOT, which has SIX important factors, the first is the running time. The Mercon spec requires the fluid be exposed to high temperatures in an aluminum beaker for 300 hours. After heat exposure, several measurments are made on the test fluid to test the fluid's resistance to oxidation.



PENTANE INSOLUBALES



Pentane is a solvent in which ATF is soluble but oxidation products and metals are insoluble. Insoluble materials form solids that precipitate out of the pentane/ATF solution. The solid materials are wieghed. Since most of the wieght comes from oxidation products, the weight of the pentane insolubles indicates the degree to which the ATF oxidized in the aluminum beaker test. The Mercon spec required a maximum for pentane insolubles of 0. 5% by weight. The Amsoil was 0. 23% by weight, indicating very little oxidation after 700 hours!.



(TAN) Total Acid Number indicates a fluid's acidic potential. A fluid's TAN increases as a result of oxidation. Mercon spec allows a 4 point increase in acidic potential. Amsoil exhibits a 0. 62 point increase after 700 hours.



VISCOSITY INCREASE

Fluid viscosity increases with oxidation. Oxidation creates solid materials that thicken the fluid. Mercon spec requires no more than 40% viscosity increase. Amsoil shows no Viscosity increase after 700 hours.



COPPER STRIP CORROSION



A copper strip is bathed in the test ATF and the degree to which is corodes is determined by its color and general appearance after exposure. The evaluation schedule ends at 3d, total corrosion. The Mercon spec is 3b maximum, general blackening. Amsoil exhibits a 1b rating, slight discoloration, or negligable copper corrosion after 700 hours.



There are other tests as well, but those mentioned above are pretty much what the OEM's use, only the methods and limits are different. GM calls their high heat tests (THOT) Turbo Hydromatic Oxidation Tests. Chrysler pretty much follows GM, with the exception of their friction durability tests used to evaluate the shift characteristics of ATF.



Hope this helps some.



Wayne

amsoilman

I have no issue with the lube quality of the amsoil but every oem wants to have their own "amount of slip" built in to their atf. Ford was always the one that slipped the least. I used Type f in my hot rod chevy years ago because it gave me less slip and cost a heck of alot less than the race fluids. I was not concerned about a harsh shift. I sought it out,Atf4 will eliminate shudders in many transmissions we see that have used +3 by mistake(cheapness). Where does amsoil fit in in that category? will it give fords the slip or will it cause the newer trans to shudder? how can it operate at both ends of the spectrum?

 

[Badunit]

I suppose if "slip" isn't in the specification then it doesn't count. Doesn't mean it can "operate at both ends of the spectrum" but it can meet both specs.

 

[2Gen3Gen]

My dealer has no problems with me using the Amsoil products... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... they even use it!



Wayne

amsoilman

I have no doubt that you are their salesman. The dealer I use, suggests that the oil be changed every 3000, even if I do it myself and not let them do it. I totally agree. I still say it is cheap insurance. BUt, I am also the guy that buys new tires when they are 75% gone. Another cheap insurance. Why go out and pay $40k for a car or truck just to take it to the limit and save a buck or two. The point Im making is, I take care of my truck as if I was going to be the one driving it at 300k miles. Rarely do I keep a truck as long as 100k, except for my 72 Chevy 4x4 which has over 400k on it and has yet to ever make me walk. I might add I change the oil in it every 2500 miles. The valve covers have yet to ever be removed and it starts every time on the first crank! I use it as my back up when my Dodge is in the shop. Might I add I also used it several years back to tow my 98 12v 5 miles home when it quit. (The wife drove the Chevy with a tow strap) That Chevy has been to the moon and back and I feel it will go another 400k and still be going whan most Dodge Cummins are dead and gone. Now, if Chevy could still build a truck like that! On that note, too bad Dodge cant build a truck like that! I doubt that there are very many one owner 1972 Dodges still on the road, much less with the orig motor, trans and transfercases! To this day, I would have no problem with jumping in my 33 year old Chevy and driving it anywhere in the US and back, towing ANYTHING. I also forgot to mention, it still isnt using any oil and only has a very slight puff on start up from the valve guides and that is only if it has sat for a month or so. All Ive used in it since new is Valvoline 30 with A/C filters. I love that truck!

 

[Bob4x4]

I have no doubt that you are their salesman. The dealer I use, suggests that the oil be changed every 3000, even if I do it myself and not let them do it. I totally agree. I still say it is cheap insurance. BUt, I am also the guy that buys new tires when they are 75% gone. Another cheap insurance. Why go out and pay $40k for a car or truck just to take it to the limit and save a buck or two. The point Im making is, I take care of my truck as if I was going to be the one driving it at 300k miles. Rarely do I keep a truck as long as 100k, except for my 72 Chevy 4x4 which has over 400k on it and has yet to ever make me walk. I might add I change the oil in it every 2500 miles. The valve covers have yet to ever be removed and it starts every time on the first crank! I use it as my back up when my Dodge is in the shop. Might I add I also used it several years back to tow my 98 12v 5 miles home when it quit. (The wife drove the Chevy with a tow strap) That Chevy has been to the moon and back and I feel it will go another 400k and still be going whan most Dodge Cummins are dead and gone. Now, if Chevy could still build a truck like that! On that note, too bad Dodge cant build a truck like that! I doubt that there are very many one owner 1972 Dodges still on the road, much less with the orig motor, trans and transfercases! To this day, I would have no problem with jumping in my 33 year old Chevy and driving it anywhere in the US and back, towing ANYTHING. I also forgot to mention, it still isnt using any oil and only has a very slight puff on start up from the valve guides and that is only if it has sat for a month or so. All Ive used in it since new is Valvoline 30 with A/C filters. I love that truck!

My old 73 chevy just left the family about3 mos ago,I know how you feel.



Bob

 

[smd]

Wayne, Just checked Amsoil's website and can't identify any transmission fluid as ATF+4. Do they call it something else?

IT STATES ON THE AMSOIL BOTTLE RIGHT ABOVE (ATF). It also states it ATF+ through ATF+4 in the description!! I have a new `05 5500 miles on it so I`m not in the AMSOIL camp, yet.

 

[amsoilman]

IT STATES ON THE AMSOIL BOTTLE RIGHT ABOVE (ATF). It also states it ATF+ through ATF+4 in the description!! I have a new `05 5500 miles on it so I`m not in the AMSOIL camp, yet.

What you see on the label is ATF+ through ATF+4 which covers the Chrysler specs for the ATF+ series fluids.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[amsoilman]

My intent is NOT to BASH Amsoil but, if it isnt supported by the guys that hold my warranty, it will NEVER see my truck. Trans oil or crankcase! Also. No one in their right state of mind would ever leave ANY oil in their motor for 15000 miles that I know. Paying the $40 for a lube oil and filter change along with checking all my other fluids and NOT GETTING MY HANDS DIRTY, is worth the peace of mind, knowing that my oil is as described in the service manuel and knowing that the dealer has record that the work was done should there ever be a problem down the road.

All well and good! EVERYONE has their own way of doing things, but when I can send a used oil sample to an Oil analysis laboratory, and have them test the used oil sample, and it still has good vicscosity, Acids are within "normal" limits, and ALL the additives are still like new oil, with NO Contaminates, why should I change it? There is NO WAY the human eye can look at engine oil and tell if it good oil or bad!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[amsoilman]

I have used Amsoil in the past to replace ATF+3 and I was entirely satisfied, so I'm not an amsoil basher. BUT- any single fluid that claims to be a suitable replacement for every variation of ATF out there... . believe it if you want. I don't.



Gary

Gary,

I appreciate the fact that you have used the ATF+3 in the past, but I want to clear up something here if I may. Amsoil DOES NOT have ONE SIngle fluid that covers every variation out there.



Amsoil has SIX different (ATF) Automatic Transmission Fluid's for differing applications. They currently DO NOT have one that will meet the specs for Volkwagon, or the new GM 6-speed, which calls for a DEXRON VI or the FORD 5-speed model #5R100W in the Fords.



They do have products that will cover the DEXRON IIIG, DEXRON IIIH and the MERCON V



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[2Gen3Gen]

All I can say is my local dealer will be the one doing the fluid changes in my truck. They also said that D/C dosn't approve Amsoil as an oil to be used at the dealer. With that in mind, Im sticking to the MOpar fluid for the trans and Delo for my 3000 mile oil changes. Yes, they said I could go 15,000 on an oil change but, why would I want to? My input to this thread is over and everyone knows how I feel about keeping my truck 100% stock and regular fluid changes with known fluids with no question as to what they will do with my warranty. If I really wanted to mess my truck up, I would be having Wal-Mart changing my oil and I would save $5. ! NOT WORTH IT. Im sticking with Delo. I use it in my truck and I use it in all 4 of my John Deere's. Never a problem! Always a source to get it. i never have to send away for it and gueww if my warranty is still OK.

Thats all folks! Count me out of this thread as I see it is headed no where. I think we have covered all the facts

 

[Diesel Nut]

I have a buddy with a 95 Camero and 148,000 very hard miles (moms car, then High school kid, then sold to college kid), Amsoil ATF since new, and no problems. The stuff flat works. Make your own judgements. No need for thrashing here. Me, I am a dealer because I use the stuff. I use the stuff moe than about 75% of our membership. How many of our members put more than 20K a year on their trucks? I put 45-50K. I am more than comfortable with the oil and the maintenance schedule. I am also a gear head. I turn wrenches for a living. You know what heavy industry uses it its turbines and pumps and motors? Synthetic lubricants. Even in oil refineries they use synthetic lubricants in their equipment. Why? Because it is the best stuff out there.

 

[2Gen3Gen]

Just a last comment. . Why is it that all the guys that use Amsoil and praise the stuff are dealers? Hmmmmm Sounds like Amway to me :-laf