Surge on launch

[JWerkheiser]

I've had this since the C02 recall a while back. Happens maybe once a week, maybe twice, but not often enough to reproduce at the dealer. Here's the deal:



You are accustomed to applying a certain amount of throttle to the vehicle during launch to maintain RPMs. Now imagine the engine running up to 2000 RPM when you expect it to be around 1200. Good thing I don't ride bumpers! To me, it seems like the computer is fueling up for launch, but not defueling when the RPMs come up. After 5 seconds or so, it will suddenly "realize" that it made the mistake and starts to defuel, when you then have to push the pedal down quite a bit to maintain the RPMs.



The dealer is going to have to drive it for a while, I believe. STAR doesn't believe me. The tech does. I know a lot of people complain about their dealers, but I've had top notch service from mine.



Anyone else had this problem?

 

[DIESELMAN]

Sounds like a TPS problem to me??

 

[JWerkheiser]

Still no resolution. It's been in 5 times total for reflashes, etc. Can't reproduce it at will, it happens randomly, maybe once a week or less, but when it does happen, it is definitely a safety issue. The other day it went to 3000 RPM when the throttle was in a position where it shouldn't have been any higher than 12 or 1300 rpm. Darn near hit the car in front of me. My next step is pursuing buyback. Anyone with experience, I'd appreciate a PM, so I know what to expect if I get that far. Chrysler isn't sending parts, so dealer is caught in a bad spot like I am. I have a truck I can't drive, they can't repro the problem yet. I won't drive it again after the last wild surge it had until they throw a new APPS and ECM at it. Even then, I am not sure it will be the answer. Could be the CP3 sensor acting up after reading a recent post here. Here's my prediction, there'lll be a lot more spent in going back and forth with Chrysler than they would have spent to send the parts in the first place. I think they should take the truck back to Detroit and play with it to figure out what is going on with it. But they better give me one in its place of course.

I am getting so frustrated... Can we have a convoy protest in Detroit (or maybe we'd have to fly over to Germany)...



Any ideas? Thanks in advance

 

[RedSmoke]

Me too!

I've also had this problem. I've noticed it 8-10 times since it was new (2 months).



The interesting part on mine is that it's a manual 6-speed, and I launch second gear without touching the "go" pedal. So if you can imagine, the engine lugs down to 650 rpm or so and then takes off to 16-1800rpm all the sudden. The only good thing is I can push the clutch in as fast as I realize it's happening.



I sometimes wonder if the TPS loses its calibration (if you read the TSB's, you'll notice that starting the engine with the throttle depressed can change it's calibration to produce a "no power" result). Anybody got this figured out yet?



JT

 

[daytripper63]

Mine just started doing it slightly I have 5 sp and take of in 2nd and every once in a while I have to push in the clutch to stop from hitting car ahead.

 

[JWerkheiser]

Latest word is Chrysler is willing to throw some parts at it. I am starting to wonder if it is a programming problem or parts issue. .

 

[JWerkheiser]

If this does go on long enough without resolution, we do have some recourse: Something for us with the problem to keep in mind. nhtsa consumer complaint

 

[rbattelle]

Geez, I hope this isn't widespread. Sounds like the 6. 0 Fords with their random engine cut-offs, except instead of cutting out it's accelerating!



I don't have this problem, but would appreciate you guys keeping us up to date on it.

 

[ddunk]

sounds like the low speed governer to me!

 

[JWerkheiser]

OK, Chrysler is NOT willing to throw parts at it. In fact, they are not willing to do anything, so I am stuck with an unsafe vehicle. I have no recourse left, as Chrysler cannot duplicate the problem. I filed a safety report on the NHTSA web site, but I am sure that will not do anything for little ol' me. No rights under lemon law, too many miles and months. Unless I happen to have a DRB with me when it happens (yeah right) or I have an accident, I guess nothing will be done, and I no longer have any faith in Dodge or Cummins and their ability to make it right. Guess whenever I can afford it I will be going back to Chevy gasser, or maybe just buy the little Dodge Neon they gave me to drive the last 18 days and sell my truck...

 

[rbattelle]

Gotta be the TPS.

 

[JWerkheiser]

Guys, I agree 100% but there isn't a way for them to throw parts at it without incurring some legal liability. If they release it back to me after putting a part on it, they can be liable for an accident unless they can 100% ensure that it is fixed. Problem is, if they release the truck back to me without doing anything, whether they discovered anything or not, they are also exposing themselves if I get into an accident. What's killing me is the fact that the 3 Chrysler techs from Chicago couldn't reproduce it when they came down to look at the truck. Thank goodness I never put a box on it. They checked that out REAL close. Would have killed any chance I would ever have for any warranty work in the future.



I have a pretty big liability policy on my business and hope I don't have to use it due to a wreck.

 

[JWerkheiser]

UPDATE

Happened again today, this time went up to 3500 RPM under load at launch in 2nd gear, accelerator pedal was 1/8 of the way depressed, engine in neutral under no load would have been at 1400-1500RPM, not 3500. Is that scary or what? It was to me, and if the person in front of me was watching his rear view mirror, probably scared him too! Another close call and nothing being done by Chrysler because they can't duplicate it.

 

[rbattelle]

What about an injector getting stuck OPEN? Or maybe more than 1 being stuck open? You've got a given pressure in the rail, so if the injector(s) stick open too long, you'll just get all sorts of extra fuel being dumped in... resulting in a huge surge in RPM.



Just for grins, try disconnecting and re-connecting each of the 3 electrical connectors for the injectors (the ones on the ouside of the valve cover, so you don't have to take anything apart). It certainly won't hurt anything, and maybe you'll fix a connection that was arcing or something?

 

[JWerkheiser]

Good idea

I may try that if I can't get the problem to show up at the dealer. I'm going to try a different dealer and see if they can reproduce the problem. It only happens when I am doing city driving and the dealer I was working with was out in the country. Couldn't replicate city driving out there and that is why it didn't show up for them.

 

[JWerkheiser]

I CAN REPRODUCE IT

Launch at 0 throttle in 2nd, then as the engine "recovers" from engaging the clutch, I barely touch the accelerator pedal and the engine goes WOT, will stay there forever if you are brave enough to do it. I'm not. At least I will be able to show the dealer now.

 

[BillGotthelf]

The feature that allows you to leave the line without using the throttle when you are towing could be problem. I have had mine accelerate forward leaving the line or even when I am lugging the engine in 3rd gear in traffic. If it drops below 800 the computer senses it and accelerates the truck. I have had to hit the clutch and pop mine out of gear to avoid running over the person in front of me. I have not seen that kind of rpms but in the prime torque range it does give you a start.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Good job Werkeiser, they better take you seriously now!



Vaughn

 

[jlasich]

Well, I don't want to make light of a bad situation but I guess when I get mine, I'm going to have to stay a few car lengths back in the bumper-to-bumper traffic. On the flip side, if someone cuts me off and then we have to slow down and stop, I could definitely scare the heck out of them.



The Ford 6. 0l just doesn't want to move and the Cummins is just overly-anxious to get to work.



On a more serious side, I hope they can get it figured out. Would hate to see people defect to another brand.

 

[bighammer]

Mine has done the same thing a few times. (maybe once/month?) I figured if I took it back, it would be the same run-around-- Unable to reproduce it. I want to check it out next time I'm driving it and see if I can make it do it. It seems to do it mostly in parking lots like at the mall (like I need another reason to hate the mall) when I've been stop and go (and very slow when going) for a few minutes. The first couple times it did it, I nearly plowed into the car in front of me. Now I'm somehow ready for it and not so freaked out.



Mine will also wind up quite a bit if I'm pulling in the driveway (idling uphill) and then push in the clutch. if the engine is slightly below idle speed. It's like an over-active governor that is overcompensating for the slight load at low speed. Makes me sound like a real rookie sometimes.



I'm curious, is your TPS (or whatever they call it now) on the engine (older style) or down under the battery? (I think?) Mine is one of the earlier 03s.



It seems like it senses the throttle position OK, all other times so it could be some kind of programming glitch too.



Hang in there. Trying another dealer might help. Yours does sound a bit more wild than mine, that the RPMs seem to be a bit higher in your case. However, if I could MAKE it happen and be ready for it, maybe I could really look at the tach.