surge problem...dealer says normal!!!

[JedRattle]

I have an `05 ctd 6speed. The truck is sitting on the dealers lot right now. It has 1331 miles... . yes 1331 not 13310. It is surging when coming up to a stop. If you are driving (any speed) put in the clutch, step on the brake, the engine drops to 650rpms and shoots back up to about 900rpms. It will shoot up and down about 2-3 times on the average and then settles down. This problem started at about 170miles every once in awhile but, now it is every single time you come to a stop. I have had it surge at low speeds in 2nd gear in parking lots... scary because the truck jumped and took off without my foot on the pedal. I am afraid that it will take off out of control one day. God I hope I don't kill someone!



I took the truck to the dealer a week ago. Big hassle!! :-{} They called me yesterday and said nothing was wrong. I was ****** off. I went up there. I took the service manager for a ride. I didn't even get off their lot before it did it. I literally drove from one side of the buliding to the other side, came up to a stop and it did it. He gave me a bs line about the engine finding it's target idle. I told him sucker someone else but not this guy. He got the head service tech. I took him for a ride. . the same thing. His response was this is not right. He told the service manager `it's doing the same thing the blue one was doing... . it needs a new transfer pump. ' Manager said ok we will fix it.



They call me today and say it's ready. I asked what did they do? The service writer says they could find any thing. They called star... Star said certain models just do that. WTF!!!!!!! A $45,000 vehicle should not do this!!!



I could go on and on but I won't. This is my first new vehicle ever. Needless to say I am beyond ****** off. I cannot even begin to explain the rage that I am in right now!!!! I am ready to drive it through the front doors of their building!!! What to do now because I am not going to take this laying down!! We should not have to put up with this type of stuff for the amount of money spent on these trucks!!! #@$%! #@$%! #@$%! #@$%!





P. S. Thanks for letting me vent a little!!!

 

[thejeepdude]

Try a different dealer!

 

[sag2]

Settle down

It is completely normal. If you do a search there are several threads on it. I drove a couple 04's and they both did the same thing.

 

[WDimig]

well im glad the machanical pumps dont do that ! but on a serious note, that is no way in any shape or form acceptable. jed rattle is 100% right imo, what if the truck did take off, and the driver was not able to gain control quickly enough, and runs some innocent bystander over?? what's he gonaa say in court... " oh but the dealer and star felt that the problem was normal!" that sure as hell aint gonaa fly in a court room. and no truck, brand new, or 20 years old should have an idle problem like that. i'd fight to the end on this one if i were in this situation.



wes

 

[JedRattle]

Settle down

It is completely normal. If you do a search there are several threads on it. I drove a couple 04's and they both did the same thing.

You sound like the dealer!!!!

 

[JedRattle]

well im glad the machanical pumps dont do that ! but on a serious note, that is no way in any shape or form acceptable. jed rattle is 100% right imo, what if the truck did take off, and the driver was not able to gain control quickly enough, and runs some innocent bystander over?? what's he gonaa say in court... " oh but the dealer and star felt that the problem was normal!" that sure as hell aint gonaa fly in a court room. and no truck, brand new, or 20 years old should have an idle problem like that. i'd fight to the end on this one if i were in this situation.



wes

Thank you!!! Someone that is thinking for once!!! I do not feel this problem is at all acceptable!!!

 

[CoastyAV8R]

Jed,

My 04. 5 does the same thing. I had an 01 ETH 6speed and it didn't do the surging idle. I notice mine seems to be more noticeable with the air conditioning on. My truck has done it since it was new and it now has 20,000 miles on it. I have taken it in twice, once for a stuck horn and asked them to look at it and they said it was normal, and then again for the reflash in hopes it might cure it. Needless to say it's still there. One of tech's said it must be a software problem because the truck runs fine everywhere else and gets good mileage. On my 01, I had 2 lift pumps (aka transfer pump) take a big old dump on me where they weren't making any fuel pressure at all, but the truck never surged, so I don't know if that would cause it. Whatever you do, let me know so I can try to get mine taken care of.

 

[mconstable]

My truck used to have a surge at idle, very obvious, up, down, up, down varied by a few thousand RPM's, nothing big, but noticeable.

Freaked me out for a while... felt like you do, new $45,000 truck etc.

Anyway...

Smoothed out when I wasn't looking

At 45,000 miles, all is good.

 

[TSturges]

I've an 04. 5 6-speed that does this. Did it from Mile 1, dealer told me the same thing about the computer finding the right idle... 11,000 miles and it still does it just as much as ever.



If it really is OK and normal, fine, it's not a big deal, but how come so few of these trucks do it? Sure doesn't seem like normal behavior. I thought lugging an engine wasn't good-- this is exactly what it feels like at every stop. That bounce down to 650 is pretty low.



Tim

 

[JedRattle]

I feel it's an electrical type problem. I have 2 other dodge diesels and neither one have this type of problem. . both have over 200,000 miles on them. My work truck is a `96 ford f800 with a 5. 9 cummins and a 6speed trans. It doesn't do it. I read some of the other posts. One post (about 6 pages long) dealing with surge problems, had a few trucks that where actually fixed. I think it comes down to the dealer. I have notice that the truck has gotten a lot noisier since I got it as well. All this money for what?

 

[sag2]

When you step on the clutch there is no load on the engine. It doesn't matter how low the RPM's get, it isn't lugging and it isn't hurting anything. If the RPM drop to 650 was bad, than when the truck cranks to start it every time at 350 RPM it must be really bad? I don't think so.

The real problem if you insist on calling it one, is software and the engine trying to normalize the idle speed. So just drive it and enjoy the ride. If it bugs you that bad, quit staring at the tach when you come to a stop.

 

[MMeier]

My truck used to have a surge at idle, very obvious, up, down, up, down varied by a few thousand RPM's, nothing big, but noticeable.

Freaked me out for a while... felt like you do, new $45,000 truck etc.

Anyway...

Smoothed out when I wasn't looking

At 45,000 miles, all is good.

Damn mc, few thousand RPM, nothing big???

 

[joemyers]

You might try disconnecting the batteries for about 10 minutes to clear the memory. Just a thought.

 

[DPKetchum]

Let it break in first. My 03 did this some and now it dosen't.

 

[macdaddy]

It's normal

Jed



Settle down there cowboy. Mine does the same thing, the reason?.

If the truck is moving with either the clutch in or in neutral, your speed sensor is sensing the truck is still moving telling the ECM to find an idle which its not supposed to do while moving. I went through the same thing as you at my dealer. It took a excellent Mech to explain it to me aswell as experimenting with it my self along with driving FOUR identical trucks.



Try this, take the truck for a spin, get going around 30 MPH push the clutch in or go to neutral and watch it hunt until you are 5MPH or slower.



Dude, try not to get ****** at me I'm only trying to help!!!!.



Mac

 

[Jumbo Jet]

Trade it for an automatic.

 

[nickleinonen]

mine does the same thing... 300 rpm isn't much to worry about... but when i am coming to a stop, i don't go into neutral until i am at about 1000rpm in 3rd gear, then pop into neutral and coast/stop.

it is the nature of the engines electrical programing. it isn't fueling much [if any] when the engine rpm is coming down and has to start fueling to main idle speed... also, the ecm does not know if you have it in gear or not without doing this. . it won't do it at a stand still since there is no vehicle movement. . while moving it is trying to make sure it is in gear... my 03 gasser with 5 speed manual did a very similar thing.



it is normal... don't get so worked up over it...

what if the truck did take off, and the driver was not able to gain control quickly enough, and runs some innocent bystander over??

hard for the truck to take off when in neutral or clutch pushed in... and it won't surge when in gear...



***edit***

i guess i should read all the posts before posting, as i wrote nearly the same thing macdaddy wrote...

 

[JedRattle]

Trade it for an automatic.

I won't own the auto. Although I got waxed by an auto bad 2 weeks ago :-laf



macdaddy. . that makes since ... but if that is true why didn't it do it from day one? This started at about 170 miles. I haven't had the truck for over a week. I get it back today as soon as I can get a ride to the dealer(25 miles away). I will drive it again and let you know. I remember being completely stopped and watching it hunt. The change in the noise level does have me concern as well.



I am going to try disconnecting the batteries.

 

[macdaddy]

Jed

Mine will continue to hunt if I go to neutral and do a sudden stop. As long as the idle eventually settles out no worries.



Mac

 

[CoastyAV8R]

The explanation by Macdaddy does make sense but why didn't my 2001 ETH 6 speed do it?



I think the reason it bothers some people is because of the type of personality they have. I work and fly on planes so any type of gauge fluctuation catches my eye and I want to know why it's doing it. Other people (my wife ) don't notice things like that and often times it takes a big noise or lack thereof for her to notice or even worry about something mechanical. I can accept and live with the surge so long as I know it's not a sign of an impending problem that will me stranded on the side of the highway at rush hour. Until now I hadn't heard a valid explanation of why it does it.



As far as the disconnecting the batteries go, my horn stuck on and blew until it killed both of my batteries while I was out of town for a few weeks for work. I pulled the batteries and charged them back up then reinstalled them and the truck still surged afterwards so I don't think it's a resettable computer function. It may work for somebody else though, so it's worth a shot.



Once the idle surges for a few cycles, about 3-5 seconds, it stops hunting, but I hadn't paid attention to how the vehicle speed ties in to the equation. I take the truck out of gear and coast to a stop so I can't whether it's tied in to being in gear, I hadn't put that to the test yet but I will. At a stop the truck idles normally. If it didn't then I would definitely be concerned.