Surprising result worth noting (Turbo Air Guide)

[Car_nut57]

d. miner,i know what you are saying. the engine did feel better,smoother even. but if you look at your boost at any given rpm,you will find you are useing more. why?my miles per gallon went down. this was because the ecm is putting in more fuel to compensate for more boost. just what its supposed to do. in my view the engine is trying to get to speed but it cant because something is restricting the air flow. we only changed one thing and that was the air dog. hence that is the reason . i feel the engine felt smoother because more boost was introduced(the velocity)which will help overcome any port restrictions to a point. the turbo is working harder,its pushing harder to maintain crusing speed. that is why it feels better. the air mass is moving faster,but its taking more fuel to do it. my egt also went up,a byproduct of more boost. who needs that?i also did not notice any extra pulling power in my truck. i am glad it works for you. maybe i just got a bum truck,who knows?(i am just trying to put forward a theory as to why it did this in my truck,no flame intended,)

silkey, We have not seen any trucks yet that required more boost to do the same work. In fact we are constantly told that the cruising highway boost is reduced some times as much as 4 psi and that the peak boost is increased by slightly. It sounds like you have tried a TAG in your truck, did you make sure it was installed into the turbo properly? I am not being critical of your post just curious as to why your results were different than expected. Please feel free to give me a call as I am always interested in the results that people get especially with all the different modifications on their trucks.

 

[silkey]

yea i know its a different result,and i have no problem with that. if you dont try something how are you going to improve?i think its a good idea. every now and then there is always an exception to the rule,it was just my turn. i installed it more than once,using the factory intake and with a torque tube,same result. would it be possible to make one that starts before the final turn in the pipe and continue untill the tube straightens out before the turbo?i think that final turn(well they all do)if you could control the airflow so its being straightened while still in the curve would increase the effectiveness of the product. that curve has to flatten the air so the majority of it gets squished to the bottom,where it should just keep riding there or it will try to fluff back up,and that in itself would create undue turbulence. a tube can only flow what is presented to it,some tubes in the honeycomb would flow more because that is where the air is. if you can figure out a way that all of the tubes in the honeycomb can get an even a flow as the rest,you would have a more even airflow into the turbo. straight air is good,straight balenced airflow would be better.

 

[Car_nut57]

silkey, on the 2004. 5 and 2005 trucks they come with directing vanes in the elbow and we have been using the TAG-III with these vanes and they do help to get the air to make the corner. Some trimming of the vanes is required to get them to clear the cells of the honeycomb. The TAG-III does seem to work a little better with the vanes in place.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Ordered mine today! Be ready for it Monday.

 

[d.miner]

silkey,



I would strongly encourage you to call Dave (It's toll free!). I know he worked hard on this product and it's development. I know he wants it to work for you as well. Nothing lost on the phone call, no reason not to.



Tim,



Muffler bearings... . right... didn't know they came on the 05's ! I would rather hear what you think of the G56, but I don't want to hijack this tread. PM me if your feeling up to it.



If the TAG's not your cup of tea, why keep it around as a paperweight. I'll take all you want to give away.



Thanks, Dan

 

[GLASMITHS]

Ordered mine today! Be ready for it Monday.

My initial response is that the power comes on a lot smoother and perhaps a little more. No numbers. that will take a while. However, I am already satisfied with the product; time will tell after I tow with 26K gcw.

 

[BigGunZ]

Having read through most of these posts I can see where some folks may not buy into the benefits of this unit without seeing dyno results. I'm certain that the theory behind this is sound and in fact, "theory" isn't the right word to use here... this is real science. That thing works and I make that statement merely by looking at the picture.



I should probably state my background up front before the BS flag goes up... I'm a 21 year veteran of Naval Aviation and an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant technician. I've worked on everything from Vietnam era fighters to Tomcats, Hornets, and most modern commercial platforms. I also served 12 years as a Flight Engineer on multi engine reconnaisance aircraft.



That said, I have NEVER seen a jet engine that didn't have some type of flow straightener at the compressor inlet. If you look at the photo below, you can see what amounts to a lame attempt by Dodge to accomplish the same effect...



#ad




... if you look below the intake silencer you can see some white-ish looking plastic vanes (this is my 05 Cummins BTW). These vanes are an attempt at directing the airflow more evenly at the compressor vanes. While they likely do an adequate job, they don't nearly equal a honeycomb setup and the thickness of the vanes obstruct airflow to an extent. Just by looking at the TAG I can tell it does a superior job. If you're looking for "dyno" numbers, I think you'll be disappointed. Any gains from this unit are likely experienced under the curve and are small BUT... what it will do, as the inventors claim, is make the turbo compressor much more efficient which equates to several advantages...



1. Turbo efficiency. While power increases on the dyno may be small or nonexistant, turbo response is greatly improved. This likely accounts for the SOTP increases reported by users. What they're feeling is a snappier response to throttle.



2. Boost for a given pedal position will likely go down. Why? Because the engine doesn't need as much boost to make the same amount of power. What you have to keep in mind here is that exhaust energy has to spin the spool. If the spool is easier to spin (because of laminar flow), less heat/exhaust energy is wasted on spinning it and less heat is absorbed by the exhaust impeller. The result... lower boost (not peak boost), lower exhaust backpressure, cooler compressor/exhaust impeller temps and a longer lasting turbo.



Take a look inside the MAF housing of any modern gas engine that incorporates an elbow prior to the MAF inlet... you'll find a honeycomb screen.



Heck ... I just sold myself... where can I get one of these things

 

[d.miner]

"Where can I get these things?"



http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/home

 

[BigGunZ]

I went and ordered one with a smooth tube... just looking at the factory tubing gives me the heebeejeebees.

 

[Matt400]

I'm a 21 year veteran of Naval Aviation and an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant technician. I've worked on everything from Vietnam era fighters to Tomcats, Hornets, and most modern commercial platforms. I also served 12 years as a Flight Engineer on multi engine reconnaisance aircraft.



That said, I have NEVER seen a jet engine that didn't have some type of flow straightener at the compressor inlet.

I don't have your background but did spend several years on the flightlines where I caught a glimpse of various AF, Navy and Marine jet intakes.

I do remember seeing small directional fins in there and figured it was to reduce turbulence.



But if the TAG is so good I still wonder why it isn't used in a jet intake.

 

[BigGunZ]

I don't have your background but did spend several years on the flightlines where I caught a glimpse of various AF, Navy and Marine jet intakes.

I do remember seeing small directional fins in there and figured it was to reduce turbulence.



But if the TAG is so good I still wonder why it isn't used in a jet intake.

Jet intakes use inlet guide vanes to achieve the same effect. Most jet intakes don't get their air through an elbow so and is a straight shot so turbulence is minimal. The sheer volume and speed of the air entering would collapse a honeycomb screen. Whether it's "so good" is argueable. The results are likely subtle... worth it to some... not to others.

 

[Grizzly]

This thread has been going on for over two years.

 

[67guzzler]

This thread has been going on for over two years.

Yup. And I just finished reading every single post.



There is nothing left that's not been said. I guess people should either try it or not. If they do, they can decide if they like it or not.



This kinda reminds me of vitamins. People who take them swear they make them feel better. The literature says they should help. But the premise is that people are vitamin deficient. They can't help unless you don't have all that you need already.



For this TAG gadget to work, the stock air flow to the turbo has to have tangible inefficiencies. It may but I sure don't know.



To take this pathetic analogy further, then you find out that the most common commercial vitamins are hard for many people to absorb and a significant portion of the people on vitamins aren't absorbing them anyway.



With the TAG gadget, someone theorized that there must be a measurable restriction caused by this TAG gadget but the good it does by straighting out the airflow offsets this so it's a wash and nothing is happening.



Maybe it helps on the low end. Maybe it helps on the high end. Maybe it helps while towing. Maybe it helps while driving empty. I read all the posts.



Maybe Maybe Maybe.



So what do you have for your $160 or $200 or whatever you paid?



Some nice vitamins.

 

[rbattelle]

Today I removed my TAG to inspect it. Part of the reason I removed it was because this thread made me a little nervous that it might have been dislodged. [Turns out that thread applies only to 2nd gen trucks and an older version of the TAG... the one for the 3rd gen trucks cannot dislodge from its mounting location, so have no fear].



The TAG was in good condition, but I noticed an extremely fine black dirt on the turbo blades and all through the TAG. This dirt was not present upstream of the TAG. I don't believe the TAG was shedding this material. It was probably just the ultra-fine particlate matter that gets past the stock air filter. I can't explain why it appeared only at the TAG and beyond and not farther upstream in the intake duct.



The o-ring on the TAG was badly cracked and was in need of replacement. I removed it and cleaned the TAG up. Then, inexplicably, the o-ring disappeared. And I mean that in the most literal sense. I spent about an hour searching my entire shop and did not find that o-ring. It literally vanished into thin air. No, it's not in the intake tube.



Anyways, my TAG is no longer installed, since I no longer have the o-ring (I'll get a new one). I'm also in the process of re-evaluating my stock intake plumbing and looking at making some changes which might result in an inability to run the TAG anymore. I like the looks of the cool blue hose, but DPP should really consider making one with a TAG permanently integrated in the straight section of the hose... Dave, are you listening?



It will be interesting to see if anything changes with the TAG gone.



-Ryan

 

[67guzzler]

Ryan,



I soooo understand losing stuff like that o-ring. I'm incredibly *n*l about stuff like that and go to great lengths to not lose them. Then I forget the special place I put them and my project comes to a skreetching halt. I 100% can relate.



-Jay Gann

 

[Matt400]

Hey Ryan, I too liked the looks of that hose and bought one. Cleans things up nice and looks good too but I took it off after just one week of use. The high pitch turbo whine was just too much, especially while towing.



It has some flex plus with the air box rubber mounted I don't see any trouble from engine to fender movements. I would rather use the Cool Blue than a steel pipe for sure but the noise! maybe it could be wrapped with something but then you are covering up that pretty hose.

 

[rbattelle]

The high pitch turbo whine was just too much, especially while towing.

Even with the silencer ring in place? The other nice thing about the cool blue hose is it reduces the number of hose couplings to 2 (from 4). I'm always paranoid I didn't get the clamps tight enough and I'll be sucking dirty air.



This morning I came up with 2 theories where that fine black powder may have come from.



1. The o-ring. This is unlikely, but that o-ring was badly degraded (cracked all to heck), so it's possible it was shedding very small rubber particles.



2. With the TAG installed in the bottom of the stock hose, you can't install the hose 100% onto the turbo inlet. In fact, you can only get it onto the inlet about 33% of the way (maybe 50%), since the TAG unit is butted against the turbo inlet. It's possible that the decreased sealing surface area of the hose prevents a properly tight seal with the turbo inlet, causing very small particulates to enter the turbo.



These are just theories... I have no idea if either are the answer. I'll pull the intake hose again down the road and see if the dirt has re-accumulated.



-Ryan

 

[Matt400]

Even with the silencer ring in place?

Yes, I didn't change anything else. I'm not into more noise so it had to go.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

It looks like they did away with the O-Rings on all the TAG's. My TAG II came without one. The original TAG had one. I didn't reinstall the O-ring w/ TAG II. See the pictures @ Diesel power products. None of them show an O-Ring anymore.

 

[rbattelle]

It looks like they did away with the O-Rings on all the TAG's. My TAG II came without one. The original TAG had one. I didn't reinstall the O-ring w/ TAG II. See the pictures @ Diesel power products. None of them show an O-Ring anymore.

Yeah, Dave (Car_Nut57) just told me that. But he's sending me a replacement anyway. He also mentioned the TAG-III is compatible with their cool blue hose.



My only fear about the cool blue hose now is the excessive turbo scream that Matt reported. I like turbo whine, but not TOO much turbo whine.



I'm unclear how the TAG-III fits in the intake hose...



... on edit: okay I reviewed the installation instructions for the TAG-III. I have mixed opinions on it (the mounting... I like the TAG concept itself). I don't like the way it won't allow the stock inlet hose to fit all the way on the turbo. That problem is eliminated with an aftermarket smooth intake hose (like cool blue).



-Ryan