Surprising result worth noting (Turbo Air Guide)

[HBarlow]

Reminds me of the famous words of PT Barnum.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

I will throw in my real world driving 2-cents in this very long thread I just came across.



My dad and I bought the TAG's back in June 04, $129. 00 each. He has the 12 valve California engine, 1996 model year, 180 HP and I have the 24 valve HO 2003. 5 year, 305 HP.



With his 12 valve engine, it would produce normal black soot and smoke, the soot would accumulate on the body panel where the exhaust exits the pipe. After installing the TAG there is no more soot problem on the panel. There is only a small amount of black smoke when accellerating hard. The other thing it did was pick up one MPG.



With my 24 valve engine, I have no soot or black smoke to begin with, but what I got was a one MPG increase. This was my second mod to the truck and the MPG was instant by dividing miles on trip into gallons to fill back up.



My truck new, 5-03, zero miles.

>First mod when new was to remove the muffler, commute at (70 MPH), 20. 7 MPG avg.



>Second mod, installed TAG, 23K, 6-04, commute at (70 MPH), 21. 7 MPG avg.



>Third mod, installed AFE filter, 24K, 7-04 commute at (70 MPH), 21. 8 MPG avg.



>Forth mod, installed Banks High Ram intake, 55K, 3-06, commute at (70 MPH), 21. 8 avg.



>Fifth mod, installed Moore elm tube, 61K, 3-06, at same time slowed down commute to (68 MPH), 23. 3 MPG avg.



>>>This was my peak MPG of the truck with the old diesel and (68 MPH). <<<



>Around 10-06 in CA is when the ultra low sulfur diesel hit. Mileage droped instantly, as a result and at this time diesel was getting very expensive in CA, I slowed down to (64 MPH) and I got back to my 23 MPG avg.



So to recap, TAG picked up 1 MPG over baseline, the other stuff did not help, ultra low sulfur diesel reduced 2 MPG, slowed down from 68 to 64 and got back the 2 MPG.



"23 MPG, TAG, old diesel, 68 MPH"

"23 MPG, TAG, ULSD, 64 MPH"



I have 101,000 miles on the TAG, and the figure of savings using the numbers before the slowing down numbers, saved 229 gallons in that 101K duration, avg. cost of fuel I set at $2. 90, (03>1. 35 + 08>5. 35 + 09>2. 00 divide by 3 = 2. 90) a gallon X 229 = $665. 00 - $129. 00 for the TAG = $536 gain with using the TAG.

 

[DPKetchum]

Lots of testomonals on Dura Lube also(as well as other snake oils). I saw NO drop in fuel mpg with the new fuels.

 

[BrianJ]

My truck new, 5-03, zero miles.

>First mod when new was to remove the muffler, commute at (70 MPH), 20. 7 MPG avg.



>Second mod, installed TAG, 23K, 6-04, commute at (70 MPH), 21. 7 MPG avg.

You are overlooking two (at least) other factors to the mileage equation.



No 1. CTD's pick up mileage as they break in, many see a 1mpg increase on a stock engine/drivetrain after 15-20k miles



No 2. Tires have less rolling resitance as the miles add up and tread wears down, which is another contributer to mileage once you get tens of thousands of miles racked up



Both of the above could easily (and most likely did) account for your increase in mileage from new (zero miles).

 

[brods]

You are overlooking two (at least) other factors to the mileage equation.



No 1. CTD's pick up mileage as they break in, many see a 1mpg increase on a stock engine/drivetrain after 15-20k miles



No 2. Tires have less rolling resitance as the miles add up and tread wears down, which is another contributer to mileage once you get tens of thousands of miles racked up



Both of the above could easily (and most likely did) account for your increase in mileage from new (zero miles).

Good points.



The only way to be sure the mods gave you the mpg gains is to remove them one at a time and see if you loose the same mpg as they appeared to gain. Then reinstall them and if you get the same gains back then you can be fairly sure it is the mods and not something else.



Not saying it works or it doesn’t, but the fact that some very meticulous and observant people have tried the tag and have witnessed no change in mpg, speaks volumes.....

 

[DPKetchum]

Pull that TAG out and lets see! Curious to the results.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

You are overlooking two (at least) other factors to the mileage equation.



No 1. CTD's pick up mileage as they break in, many see a 1mpg increase on a stock engine/drivetrain after 15-20k miles



No 2. Tires have less rolling resitance as the miles add up and tread wears down, which is another contributer to mileage once you get tens of thousands of miles racked up

1. That second mod "TAG" was done at 23K. The mileage went up and stayed up 1 MPG instantly from before vs after.



2. If anything the mpg will suffer due to smaller dia. More RPM's as the tire gets smaller.

Now at 124K on the same tires when I bought the truck new, almost to the wear bars.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

I saw NO drop in fuel mpg with the new fuels.

You got to be kidding me, that ULSD killed my MPG's, I lost 2 MPG. From that point on I slowed down to recoop what I used to get, 68 down to 64 mph.



I must admit, it has allways been a game of sorts, allways filling up to the max, allways calculating MPG, allways driving the same average speed and style. I know for a fact what happens WHEN it happens.



"Pull that TAG out and lets see! Curious to the results. "



I would rather put a tank of old school diesel in and see the MPG go up 2 than go backwards and loose 1 mpg by removing the TAG.



The only thing that affected my MPG's + are: 1 slowing down, 2 TAG.

The thing that killed my MPG is the: 1 ULSD.



All other things that I have added did not do jack, like: 1 AFE, 2 Banks High Ram Manifold, 3 Moore pipe, 4 cab high shell, 5 synthetic gear lube, 6 valve adjustment.

 

[brods]

BrianJ is correct, there is no question that worn tires will get better mpg then when new. If you want to get real picky, not only will the deeper tread of a newer tire allow more energy sapping squirm, it also weighs more. Rotational weight hurts mpg much more than plain weight, so the lighter the tire the better the mpg if everything else is equal. The net effect of the small diameter change effecting engine rpms depends on the engine’s operating efficiency and could slightly help or hurt.



As far as your being sure the tag added mpg, you might be right. It may be you operate your truck in the load/rpm range where the tag possibly increases efficiency. From your tire life it sounds like you’re easy on the go pedal, so you probably notice the most benefit from a mod that improves low end, part throttle efficiency. Similarly, your other mods where you see no gains, might be because you do not operate your truck in the range where they could increase engine efficiency compared to stock.



Still, given all the variables and operating conditions you cannot control, concluding any one single mod is the only factor responsible for a gain or loss without thorough testing is a leap of faith. In this case there is a easy way to "prove" it is the tag by simply removing it for a while and comparing the mpg without it to mpg with it. Of course you’d have to base the mpg comparisons on the same driving conditions such as load, speeds, time of year, fuel type, etc. and not unintentionally effect the test by driving differently.



Regardless of what works for you, since not many people drive in a style which allows them to get 124K+ out of a set of tires, it is unlikely that your results will be typical of what others would get using the same mods. So while you may see a 1 mpg gain the majority would see different results. YMMV

 

[Andersonville]

I love my Smarty Jr!

 

[DPKetchum]

Come on. Pull that tag out and post mpg and put it back and post mpg. My truck gets about 15/16 mpg. Towing my LQ trailer about 11/12 and has for the last 15k or more. The times I've checked my overhead its been withen . 3 to . 5 accurate. I did a 100 miles or so running 70 mph and was around 15 to 15. 2 mpg. My old 93w250 got 17mpg tops running 70 mph. It also had 4. 10 gears but was a non lock up auto but did have a slighlty tighter torque convertor then stock(TCI convertor)

 

[rbattelle]

I had the TAG in for a couple years, then I took it out. My fuel mileage log shows no change at all.

I still like the idea of the TAG, but I never considered it a fuel economy device. I just wanted to reduce distortion at the compressor face.

Ryan

 

[Turbo_Bob]

BrianJ is correct, there is no question that worn tires will get better mpg then when new. If you want to get real picky, not only will the deeper tread of a newer tire allow more energy sapping squirm, it also weighs more. Rotational weight hurts mpg much more than plain weight, so the lighter the tire the better the mpg if everything else is equal. The net effect of the small diameter change effecting engine rpms depends on the engine’s operating efficiency and could slightly help or hurt.



As far as your being sure the tag added mpg, you might be right. It may be you operate your truck in the load/rpm range where the tag possibly increases efficiency. From your tire life it sounds like you’re easy on the go pedal, so you probably notice the most benefit from a mod that improves low end, part throttle efficiency. Similarly, your other mods where you see no gains, might be because you do not operate your truck in the range where they could increase engine efficiency compared to stock.



Still, given all the variables and operating conditions you cannot control, concluding any one single mod is the only factor responsible for a gain or loss without thorough testing is a leap of faith. In this case there is a easy way to "prove" it is the tag by simply removing it for a while and comparing the mpg without it to mpg with it. Of course you’d have to base the mpg comparisons on the same driving conditions such as load, speeds, time of year, fuel type, etc. and not unintentionally effect the test by driving differently.



Regardless of what works for you, since not many people drive in a style which allows them to get 124K+ out of a set of tires, it is unlikely that your results will be typical of what others would get using the same mods. So while you may see a 1 mpg gain the majority would see different results. YMMV

Good reply brods.



Most of my driving is very part throttle, only around 7 to 10 PSI boost at freeway speeds. Boost = fuel = lower MPG.



I do know that the other mods do help with WOT: AFE, High Ram, Moore pipe, open exhaust. The TAG probably hurts WOT to some extent?



I only put up this info to share what I learned through my experences of using the TAG and the other mods. People can take this with a grain of salt, and in this day and age that is a good lesson to learn.



I would also like to use a timing box and advance the injector timing 1. 5 to 2 degrees. I know this will help MPG, but I do not want a box that also raises fuel rail pressure because of the drawbacks.



Is there a box that JUST advances injector timing ONLY?



Also the stage one aftermarket injectors do help with MPG, but the cost would outstrip the bennefit.

 

[Regcabguy]

The Smarty Revo enables you to do just that and many other combinations.

 

[Jim McCarty]

Just my $. 02 but I've had the TAG 1 for several years now but have not checked my mpg with or without it. The main benefits I've experienced are: smoother running and a little quieter running, and greatly reduced turbo bark. I've had several different air filter/ BHAF type configurations and I've always had bark no matter which system was on. The TAG makes a HUGE improvement. My SOP meter doesn't seem to tell me there's more power, but there is a sense of refinement to the usual 12 valve sound and feel. I bought mine during the group purchase several years ago and it is an extremely well made piece of equipment. I like mine. Again, just my $. 02.

 

[JHardwick]

OMG, is this thread still around?

 

[brods]

The Smarty Revo enables you to do just that and many other combinations.

Not entirely correct. The Smarty always uses a version of their fueling map, or whatever you want to call it, with its inherent extra smoke. I think TST might be one that allows you to advance only the timing while keeping the stock fueling.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

I think TST might be one that allows you to advance only the timing while keeping the stock fueling.

If this is true thats what I want. I am not interested in extra H/P or T/Q above what I allready have, 305 / 555.



Increasing fuel rail pressure will atomize the fuel better comming out of the injectors, but the drawback is a shorter life of the injectors, fuel rails, pump.



Thanks for the tip.

 

[CToney]

Get a smarty Jr and run economy setting. It is only timing no duration. You can adjust the torque management to a stock setting so it is basically stock fueling with added timing. More fuel = more fun and less shifting and easier passing when towing.

 

[zippinbye]

They seem to believe in a similar device down-under. At least the manufacturer's ad believes in it! Found this in "4x4 Australia Magazine" http://www.hicloneqld.com/



"Hiclone is a simple maintenance-free device, which fits inside the air filter housing of a carburettor or in the air induction hose on EFI, turbo, LPG or diesel engines. Hiclone has no moving parts and is made from stainless steel, so it will last a lifetime. Hiclone has an unconditional money back guarantee.











Hiclone simply changes the flow of air through the air induction system. Hiclones special fins create a swirling effect, this optimises flow through the air intake system and improves fuel-air mixing to allow near-complete combustion. Just think of how nature produces its most efficient flow rates, invert a bottle or empty the sink and nature will show you how Hiclone works. You just need to try one and you'll see. Just look at the letters sent to us from happy customers.







... we generally gain between 10 to 20% better fuel efficiency, but with two Hiclones we generally gain over 20%%

We have found that with one Hiclone we generally gain between 10 to 20 per cent better fuel efficiency, but with two Hiclones we generally gain over 20 per cent fuel efficiency. A pre-turbo Hiclone will bring the turbo on up to 600 rpm earlier.



The many benefits of Hiclone include:



More power output

BETTER FUEL ECONOMY

More stable idling

Reduced engine noise

Longer engine life

Less pollution"



Elsewhere in their liteature they say that installing one post turbo helps also. Hmmm. Smells like snake oil, the outback edition. Cannot really knock it since I don't know for sure, just seems like some wild claims. Cool magazine I saw it in though. Almost every truck and suv in AU is availlable with a CRTD engine - Rover says 70 percent of their AU sales are diesel. Why can't we get a turbo-four, six speed Wrangler, twin turbo V-8 Landcruiser, or turbo-four Ranger here?