Suspension upgrades

[GTani]

Sean,just wondering if you have any opinions on the new KORE track bar,sway bar and control arms(steel).

 

[Ereynolds72]

Why is it now that every thread about suspension ends up being an argument between the Lorenz guys and Greg. Frankly, I'm getting a little bored with the whole thing.



I don't know what the relationship was/is between KORE, Carli, Lorenz, Thuren etc. etc. etc. but when you come on here and say that a kit that costs less than half as much as the KORE Race suspension system is just as as good, I'm not buying it. Prove it! KORE has. No wonder Greg jumps in defending a product he has worked tremendously hard to support and market.

 

[GaryCarter]

Maybe these need to be handled like the trans threads- only one brand at a time?



Are either the KORE or Lorenz suspensions effective for wheel hop? Or are additional measures needed to address that?



Gary

 

[Diesel Dan]

Ereynolds 72,

I agree. Talk is cheap. It is easy to attempt to copy one's design and try to compete in the market but... what have they really acomplished? I don't recall hearing about Lorenz or Karli completing in the BAJA 1000 or 500 for that matter. Results are concrete not hype. If you really got something than prove it!!! Show us something concrete not a house of cards.....



A Rolls Royce is a Rolls Royce, everything else is just playing catch up.



We bought the best truck for a reason... ... ... ...





I want the best suspension for that same reason... ...



I deserve the best and i work hard for it... ... ... ... .



Don't you... ...



End of story... ...





DD

 

[Lorenz]

Ereynolds72 "Why is it now that every thread about suspension ends up being an argument between the Lorenz guys and Greg. Frankly, I'm getting a little bored with the whole thing.



when you come on here and say that a kit that costs less than half as much as the KORE Race suspension system is just as as good, I'm not buying it. Prove it!"



Are you referring to the saying "You get what you pay for"? I've tried to prove it through simple #, and no, you don't alway have to pay out the nose to get a quality product. I'm sorry your stuck on that philosophy.



How would you propose we prove it? I like the hydraulic ram idea. Tower to Tower face off. What say you fellow competitors?



I think you may be dozing off into boardom because it is boring! :-laf Going over and over and over something that is so simple brings me to tears. We have all come up with a design and way to strap on Race Quality shocks. Kent being the first, thus being the one to set the first price. 10 pages of drama and we still don't know if your looking at an 8", 9", or 10" travel system with the bumpstop fully compressed. Funny how the "new" shocks have a proclaimed travel next to them, where are the figures for the other systems?



Please understand I know the measurement of most of these systems courtesy of one look under BOB4x4 and Dsherman's trucks'. Yet, I cannot post pictures of it next to a tape measure nor talk directly to it, nor state what I think is fact because I am now considered a company and can be held liable for slander. Thus 10 pages of beating around the bush, trying to get Kent to state the facts about his Race system. You see, that thing Greg just did by misrepresenting the competitor and giving false information, that could cost huge $ in court. I pretty sure it won't, so don't sweat it Greg, SAW guys aren't like that and sue happy their not. (insert my best Yoda voice there).



TDR members, as consumers have every right to post away about the system they have bought. Yet, we still don't see one of you guys under your trucks to measure how much shock shaft is sticking out compared to the travel between your axel and the bottom of your frame. I can only lead a horse to water, I can't make anybody drink facts. I dare you guys, post up...



I will respond to Gtani's question to critique the KORE components if Kent's gets on here and gives the OK. I refer back to my statement about slander and liable when asking Kent to give his blessings for me to refer to KORE components directly.

 

[GTani]

Sean,I realized what I did as soon as I hit the post button. Sorry,I should have pm you for your opinion.

 

[Genros]

WOW!



Now all i need is for a couple of the suppliers to drive over to pennsylvania/jersey so i can ride in a truck all equipped. (KIdding) Sean form Lorenz I have to admit I am impressed with Ryan professionalism. Ill leave it at that. I have been on tdr for 6 months or so and nope I didnt know the can of worms I was holding would open up quite like it did. But hey that how you learn, I guess? Anyway I am shopping for my suspension and just wish to make an educated investment. I will follow the thread for any additional advice. I part time at specialty vehicle shop, therefore alot of people look at what I do to mine for there future upgrades. I of course dont like to make mistakes. Noone likes to be laughed upon.

 

[Genros]

One other thing,





Yippy! I wrote a post that went for three pages so far. HeHe

 

[NickSullivan]

Be Real

These threads crack me up. Bottom line in my . 02$ is unless you plan on taking your 8,000 lb truck out to the desert and running it hard and fast then yes you should consider one of these high end suspension kits. But for me I live in the PNW, we have mud, rocks, and trees to deal with wich means you crawl over stuff. These kits are not needed for my kind of use.



Sully

 

[Lorenz]

WOW!

Anyway I am shopping for my suspension and just wish to make an educated investment. I will follow the thread for any additional advice.

Please continue to ask poignant, common sense, even "easy" questions. I feel my business with thrive with guys like you who just want to know the systems before you buy. When it comes down to it, we all Heavily lean on a Race Quality shock to make things work. All of the high end shocks are very user friendly if you do a little investigating before you tear into one. It's easy to see why this industry has taken off down here, every kid seems to be rolling around with white fenders and tall shocks. A relatively simple mod for a whole lot of gain.



Here's a PDF of a Bilstein revalve. One of the harder ones because there are two "C" clips to remove instead of one :-laf ... There is litterally only 5 steps to disassembling a shock to it's guts to make it ride harder or softer.



Bilstein 7100 valving "black magic"



Here's a list of valving recommendations by Bilstein, sorted out by individual cars and trucks. Their very helpful on the phone as well. Notice the "Proprietary" valving Bilstein recommends for the front of a full size truck. It's call digressive and has never been a secret. I wish I could come on here and say exactly what I want but again I refer back to slander and liable.

Bilstien NON "Proprietary" valving guide

 

[Punkineater]

Why is it now that every thread about suspension ends up being an argument between the Lorenz guys and Greg. Frankly, I'm getting a little bored with the whole thing.



I don't know what the relationship was/is between KORE, Carli, Lorenz, Thuren etc. etc. etc. but when you come on here and say that a kit that costs less than half as much as the KORE Race suspension system is just as as good, I'm not buying it. Prove it! KORE has. No wonder Greg jumps in defending a product he has worked tremendously hard to support and market.

There is no reason why you can't manufacture a kit just as good as Kore's and sell it for less. Greg continually turns these threads into ******* matches because that is the type of guy he is. Frankly, I wouldn't buy anything from the guy regardless of what he is selling or how good it is.

 

[GaryCarter]

I DID ask a question and I'm STILL waiting for an answer!

I keep seeing invitations to ask questions... . maybe I'll see an answer if more time was spent on what one's products do instead of what the competitions does not.

Are either the KORE or Lorenz suspensions effective for wheel hop? Or are additional measures needed to address that?



Gary

 

[NickSullivan]

No, you will have to do some more modifications to get rid of your axle hop! Traction bars are great because they get rid of the axle hop. But, you loose articulation by adding these. This is another reason for determining how you plan on using your truck. If you plan on using your truck in the mud and rocks plan on going slow and not using traction bars, if you plan on hauling butt in the desert or across logging rodes get one of the expensive suspension kits from some the manufacturers in this thread and plan on adding a set of traction bars.



Sully

 

[Lorenz]

I concure. I don't thing my kit will aid in wheel hop. Im not making anything that would stop the axel from rotating on it's axis. The extra rebound dampening is there but I doubt it will help with.



Sorry I over read the direct question, I'll be more careful when I read through the posts. I think it was asked a while back in the other thread if I am planning on producing steering upgrades? I don't think so. I think Thuren takes care of this department very well. Quality pieces at a great price.

 

[Desert Proven]

I have a KORE Race System and I believe that it does help with wheel hop. I've driven the truck in the same conditions with and without the suspension modifications and I believe that there is significant difference in the performance of a racing shock. While it is NOT the same as traction bars, the extra rebound dampening does provide additional performance that aids in reducing wheel hop. I don't think that anyone would sell you a kit and tell you that it will solve your wheel hop problem, but I can tell you that "in my experience" it does "help".

 

[JOblenes]

Thanks Ryan for chiming in. Just so there is no confusion for the TDR membership, I would like to point out that in my first post rebutting Greg's claims, the statements I made were purely speculative of SAW's design choices. I believe I made that clear in that post, but just wanted to make absolutely certain.

RaceRunner Shocks were cadmium plated up until 4th Quarter 2004, we then switched to Electroless Nickel for the following reasons:

1. Cadmium plating looks great when it is brand new, however it tarnishes very easily and cannot be cleaned.

2. Electroless Nickel offers the same high corrosion resistance as Cadmium with the high quality shine which is much easier to maintain. We did have an issue with rust on the earlier versions with Nickel, this was due to incorrect tolerances provided by our old plater. All cyclinders are machined to the highest tolerances and have strict Mil-Spec QQ-N-290 guide lines.

It appears I was remiss in my speculation about all of your design considerations, I hadn't even thought about the appearance part. This will be nice, as Sean can confirm, we discussed the amount of snow/slush and hence road salt/traction gravel we have up here in the north and the impact this can have on the rear shocks. Sounds like I've got nothing to worry about.

All seals and O'rings used in RaceRunner Shocks are high temperature Viton (Flourocarbon) wich has a temperature service rating of -20f to 400F, if you ask me -20 is pretty damn cold.



In order to fit the Sway away shocks in to tight places they ignore primary rules of hydraulics- Like Piston Overlap- That's why they're known for leaking and require maintenance on seal failures.



Primary rules of Hydraulics???? Another Hmmmmmm... . We use a 7075 flat high flow piston w/ deflective disc valving similar to Fox. The reason for the differences in length is because Fox uses an internally threaded top cap and seal cap which requires longer cylinder length thus providing a longer eye to eye length. Comparing the travel of the competition & RaceRunner shocks our product has a shorter eye to eye dimension for the same length of travel which has nothing to do with hydraulics. I am not disputing the fact that we did have issues with leaking about 5 or 6 years ago, however this was due to poor machine tolerances from the outside manufactures we were using which is the sole reason why we purchased over a million dollars in machinery and proceeded to manufacture everything in house in our brand new facility in late 2000.

Great, this saves me the phone call to discuss this. Though I must admit I was highly suspicious of Greg's claims to begin with.

RaceRunner Shocks are found on many championship race cars and Trucks such as:



Craig Turner Multiple Score 7 Open Championships

Barry Karakas Consistant 7 Open Top 3 Finisher Score/ 3 Consecutive MDR championships and 2005 MDR 7 Champ and Overall points champ.

Mongo Racing Top 3 finisher BITD Stock Full

Long Beach Racers 2004 7x Score Champions

Didn't know any of that, cool.



Jonathan

 

[GTani]

Sean,I know nothing about shock valving or so called "Black Magic". When I inquired about the KORE suspension(at the time T/Rex),Kent ask me what I was going to do with my truck,payload etc. and offered his suggestions. He told me that the Bilsteins would work fine for what I do and they do. No hardsale about the Kings or the Fox shocks available at that time. Told me to try them,if I wasn't happy with the valving he would change it at no cost. What I'm trying to say is that I could care less about high flow pistons,deflective disc,flourocarbon (although for bonefish leaders)and all the technical hype. For me it's results and KORE stuff works for me.

Maybe if your product was on the market at the time and I purchased it with satisfied results than I'd probably be hyping your product.

 

[Genros]

OK,



Original intention of the thread. My suspension.

I live in south east pa near jersey. I like to have fun with my turck as well as drive it everyday. SInce august I have put on almost 9000 miles. I have afew performance mods done to the engine. I currently have h2 rims with 315 on the truck. My buds just recently purchased an h2 and some other trucks. I figured on upgrading mine. I currently have the spacers up front for leveling and i dont like them. I want to replace my spacers with a good set of springs. I would like to purchase the best for the ride i enjoy so i dont have to do them again. I figure hey im down there why not put on shocks at the same time. Again Id liek to install the best so i dont have to mess down there again. 90% of my ride is pownding the pavement. Id like to improve the ride on the pavement. the other 10% is otu in the pinebarrins. I dont fly down and hit jumps because i am concerned for the truck. If i am confident in the truck and suspension i may hit something for soem fun but would doubt i would ever see to much air. other than that. Jersey folks I play with seem to enjoy muddin and climbs, Ill join in. Oh one other thing. I would like to purchase this in pieces so as two save the hurt on my wallet. Front springs and shocks and then back end later. Any help would be nice

 

[oilrunner]

I think its kinda funny how these forums bring out the feminine side of these fellows. Heck, with all the hair pulling and finger nail scratching these fellas just need a little time to relax. I know, why not let the Lorenz gang and Greg chase each other around in a small dark room each wearing their naughty nities. Surely, the winner will eventually end up on top!

Hey, it might not be the politically correct solution, but it sure would be fun to watch... ... .

:-{} :-{}

 

[jryan11518]

I can read.

I can read, comprehend, analize and figure out what someone is trying to say. I have enjoyed this thread and learned a lot.

What are you going to do and how much are you willing to pay? We make these decisions every time we spend money. With this type of discussion I have gained a lot of (helpful) information to assist in making my decision.

With my luck I will probably forget it all tomorrow.