Switch to synthetic?

[tajensen]

I am the second owner of my 2000 Cummins. I bought the truck with 47k, and now I have almost 51k on it, the last 4k of which was run with Valvoline Blue. Is it worth switching to synthetic even after running 50k on petroleum base? Also, what is this bypass system some of you speak of?

 

[JCyrbok]

by pass filters

All I'll say about synthetics vs dino is that I run synthetics because they work out better in the long run for me for how I drive my truck.



The by pass filters that alot of people, myself included run is an additional, smaller micron rated filter that slowly filters the engine oil on a BY PASS basis to clean it better than the full flow.



on my system the oil goes through the full flow filter and then about 10% of the returning oil goes through the by pass filter for further cleaning. The manufactuer of my system claims that at 45MPH all the oil in a 6 qt system will run through the by pass in 5 minutes. So for our trucks it would be ten minutes. To steal a ad line from one of the manufactures its "like dialysis for your truck". There are a few companies that make the systems and they vary in their setup. Theres Frantz, Oilgaurd, Amsoil, and I;m sure there are others, but those are the majors. hope this helps.



disclaimer: i am in no way affiliated with any of the above companies.



J-

 

[monkfarm]

This would be a good time to switch. I'd say your engine just really got broke in at 30 or 40 k. Sludge hasn't really had a chance to build up yet. (I thought the cummins blue was synthetic but I don't know)

The bypass brings small amounts of oil in and cleans it slowly and thoroughly, in this way all the oil eventually gets clean. Trucks have run hundreds of thousands of miles with these systems with makeup oil (although I wouldn't)

 

[Chipstien]

I switched from dino to semi-synthetic at 3000 miles. then full synthetic at around 8000. Though many say this is bad, I say works for me. I don't use any oil between 10000 mile drain intervals and no blue smoke. And the when I dynoed the operator told me that this was one of the strongest trucks with my current mods that he has tested.

The one thing we can all agree on is to not run it with over 150,000 miles as it can cause old seals to leak. With the mileage you have I would put it in no problem.

 

[RGT]

I run Castrol Enduron @ 255k miles with no leaking... . I think when they first came out with synthetic there were problems but I believe they all put additives in to take care of sealing issues...

 

[ProZack]

Re: by pass filters

Originally posted by JCyrbok

All I'll say about synthetics vs dino is that I run synthetics because they work out better in the long run for me for how I drive my truck.



The by pass filters that alot of people, myself included run is an additional, smaller micron rated filter that slowly filters the engine oil on a BY PASS basis to clean it better than the full flow.



on my system the oil goes through the full flow filter and then about 10% of the returning oil goes through the by pass filter for further cleaning. The manufactuer of my system claims that at 45MPH all the oil in a 6 qt system will run through the by pass in 5 minutes. So for our trucks it would be ten minutes. To steal a ad line from one of the manufactures its "like dialysis for your truck". There are a few companies that make the systems and they vary in their setup. Theres Frantz, Oilgaurd, Amsoil, and I;m sure there are others, but those are the majors. hope this helps.



disclaimer: i am in no way affiliated with any of the above companies.



J-

I agree with JCyrbok, I have a by pass filter and wouldnt be without it. No matter which oil you choose you need to get it clean. Even the best full flow filter only filter to about 10 microns, the by pass filters to 1 micron. Search the internet, its loaded with good info about filters. Good luck.

 

[LSMITH]

Maybe some of you guys with a bypass could help me understand something? A full flow filters down to 10 micron or so we are led to believe, and the tightest clearance in the engine is about 10 times that large. 10um is just a shade under . 0004" BTW. How are the contaminants that are 10 times smaller than the tightest parts of the engine going to do any harm?

 

[illflem]

LS, think the idea is to keep the particulates in the filter where they can be disposed of rather than settle out as sludge in the engine.

Also the oil can only hold so much soot in suspension, the more soot you remove the longer the oil can run for.



Delo dino at 5k with no bypass is cost effective and works just great for me.

 

[ProZack]

Originally posted by LSMITH

Maybe some of you guys with a bypass could help me understand something? A full flow filters down to 10 micron or so we are led to believe, and the tightest clearance in the engine is about 10 times that large. 10um is just a shade under . 0004" BTW. How are the contaminants that are 10 times smaller than the tightest parts of the engine going to do any harm?

I got this off the Amsoil site, the Oilguard site has lots of other good info. Seems to me that the more particles in the oil the more wear. Plus by pass filters also remove water and soot.

Approximately 60 percent of all engine wear is caused by dirt particles in the 5 to 20 micron range. These particles can get inside the precision clearances between engine components and cause severe damage. While full-flow oil filters generally stop contaminants no smaller than 25 to 40 microns, the AMSOIL By-Pass Filter effectively stops particles smaller than one micron in size, substantially reducing engine wear.



Prevents Oil Degradation, Rust and Corrosion

Water enters motor oil as a combustion by-product or as a condensate. Water contamination of the motor oil can cause extreme engine damage. Water causes metal surface rust and corrosion, which increases friction and wear and deteriorates the close-fitting tolerances between engine components. In addition, water reacts with other oil contaminants to form corrosive acids, which also damage metal components. The AMSOIL By-Pass Filter removes water, reducing the risk of oil degradation, engine rust and corrosion.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Off topic question,



I know most OTR trucks dont use synthetics and use extended drain on dino oil. Do they use bypass filters?

 

[illflem]

OTR trucks have a huge oil capacity compared to our measly 11 quarts. Our engines were designed to hold more oil but then they wouldn't fit in a Dodge. More oil = longer drain intervals.

Some OTR trucks also use a system that continuously adds fresh oil while removing an equal amount of used oil, filtering it and adding it to the fuel.

 

[RichB59]

Delo 400

I'm doing Delo 400 every 3000k because I do alot of short trips and like to keep it clean. I get the oil at Costco by the case . It pays to keep clean fresh oil and filters. I have tried 5000k and it seems to have to much soot. Dark black oil.



JMHO

RichB

 

[LSMITH]

Thanks for the answers guys.



Illflem, that makes a lot of sense. I do 5K miles with Rotella, and cold easily go 8000+ according to my analysis.



Zack, my truck gets hot and stays hot every time out nearly, water in the oil is not an issue for me. Even 40 micron is still half or so of the tightest clearance in these engine, so any wear from that would be a scrubbing type as the particle passes by a surface I would think.



For the guys with a bypass, are you seeing oil analysis that is contaminant free as you are led by the marketing to believe you would?

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by illflem



Some OTR trucks also use a system that continuously adds fresh oil while removing an equal amount of used oil, filtering it and adding it to the fuel.

That would be really nice, bet it costs some $.



One more question, do you know how many miles they run average before changing?



Thanks for the info

 

[jwinnie]

Tejas Deezul,

Cummins makes a system called Centinel. I bet someone out there could retrofit it to a B series



Read about it here: http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/genuinepartsandservices/genuineparts. cfm

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by Tejas Deezul

That would be really nice, bet it costs some $.



One more question, do you know how many miles they run average before changing?



Thanks for the info

500k on an oil change and 100k on the filter.

Never priced out the system but guess it's at least several thousand dollars.

 

[ProZack]

Originally posted by LSMITH

Thanks for the answers guys.



Illflem, that makes a lot of sense. I do 5K miles with Rotella, and cold easily go 8000+ according to my analysis.



Zack, my truck gets hot and stays hot every time out nearly, water in the oil is not an issue for me. Even 40 micron is still half or so of the tightest clearance in these engine, so any wear from that would be a scrubbing type as the particle passes by a surface I would think.



For the guys with a bypass, are you seeing oil analysis that is contaminant free as you are led by the marketing to believe you would?

LSMITH, cant answer about the analysis yet, only have 3500 since adding by pass filter. Will wait for 5000 miles for first analysis then every 3300 miles. Will also take two samples and send one to oilguard and the other some where else to see if they are the same. I pull a 15k work trailer in traffic so should be a good test.

 

[Riflesmith]

Some contaminants still get through a bypass filter. All oil analysis results I have show a linear trend on iron ppm for example. The iron wear particles are fine enough that they sail right through the filter. Although soot particles in oil are sub-micron in size they have a tendency to stick to each other until they are large enough for the bypass filter to remove. The oil in my truck does get black, but it never gets black enough that you can't see through the oil on the dipstick.



All analysis results I have show extremely low soot levels.

 

[LSMITH]

Thanks Zack and Riflesmith.

 

[monkfarm]

OTR trucks

I change oil (amsoil 15-40) in my Peterbilt (N14 Cummins 500hp) every 25-30 thousand. (bought by 55 gal drum) I try to change filters on it every 10-15k. I am also running a centrifuge system that takes out soot, iron contaminents and other kinds of sludge. A fair amount of hard contaminents builds up in the centrifuge. The fleet that I am leased to (Marten Transport) uses conventional oil, and recently upped their oil changes to 40,000 miles. I am considering upping my changes to 40k or more. The 500k someone was talking about is the Centenial sp?, the Cummins blessed 3 gal tank oil makeup system. I was considering putting such a system in my truck, but it was pricey (I can't remember exactly but $2300 sticks in my head), and the amount of makeup oil was high volumn (I thought but I can't remember exactly what the amount was). I have heard of people running bypass filters in their big trucks 300k and over between oil changes (synthetic oil) Normally oil changes are recommended between 8 and 15 thousand on a big truck. 8 k I believe is what my cummins manual states.