Switching from a 18 to a 12, and back again.....

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dpuckett

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OK, first note- my truck, for those who dont read signatures, is a 11/90 build date, non IC, with 4. 10s and a Getrag (which is looking for luggage for its trip south... . ). I also have a PDR HX35 stuffed in there and afro engineered plumbing.



I ran for about 3 mo with the stock 18, got good MPGs, and it ran fine. EGTs got warm from time to time, but that is to be expected on a nonIC truck with a cranked pump. I had the chance last summer to swap with a guy who wanted a 21 and an 18 for a twins project he was working on, and had a 12 he'd trade for them. I jumped at it. I noticed an immediate increase in spoolup, a gain of about 8 psi peak boost, etc, etc. No REAL decrease in cruise or peak EGT, though it was cool to ba able to make 40+ psi with stock injectors, and peg the gauge in 3-5th gear with the EDMs. MPGs went down about 1. 5-2, though. I thought about that, stsarted driving like a bluehair on the way to church, tweaked the AFC, etc, etc. Then I read Forrest Nearring's post on the HX40-16 he had installed in his 96, and gaining MPGs. Theory was, the reduced backpressure let the engine breathe easier, thus the air in/ exhaust out was better accomodated, esp with lower gearing. Sounded ok to me, and would apply to my 4. 10s (which, BTW, are available for trade for 3. 54s or higher). I got the 18 yesterday via UPS from another guy, ported it to within an inch of its life, as I had ported the un-shrunken manifold when I put it on last month. Put it on this morning, and shipped the 12 to the guy who sent me the 18. Here are my preliminary observations:



the 18 DOES let the engine breathe better. I noticed a slight increase in EGT- maybe 50*, which can more than be attributed to weather. PEAK EGT is about the same, too- right around 1225-1250, but peak boost is lower. This is empty, but on the same stretch of road, similar weather. SOTP dyno shows no difference in pulling ability. Cooldown isnt appreciably different- down to 350 by the time I get to the red light; I can turn it off (<300) by the time it turns green again. BUT, I have gone from 8-10psi @ 60mph to 3-5psi @60mph. Peak boost was reduced by about 6psi, which is expected- 1 psi per square cm difference. There is a hair more lag, which can be adjusted by loosening the tension on the spring, to bring on the fuel at lower boost than with the 12, but I'll have to drive it a bit to see if it would be worth the difference. I DO like the lower drive pressure, decreased backpressure, though.



CONCLUSION- if you have the 2nd lowest final drive ratio (3. 54, no OD being lowest) , no intercooler, aftermarket injecotrs, and some pump tweaks, leave the 18 on there, or maybe go with a 16; the 12 is just too restrictive at higher boost/ RPM. If you have the highest final drive (Mom's truck- 3. 54 autoOD), and are at stock fuelling, the 12 might be a good upgrade, if you plan to stay stock. But, since you are reading this, I somehow doubt you'll stay stock for long.



Gone back to the 18 housing for better breathing...



Daniel
 
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It's an honor for such a great mind to answer my thread

I had come to that conclusion, but I figured the 18, being free, (other guy is covering shipping on both of them) would be the next best thing. To all you newbies, Mr Donnelly knows his stuff. If money/ cost isnt the factor that it currently is with me, got for a 16.



DP
 
Some good readin here, very interesting:) I noticed how you said the dyno showed no difference in pulling power--i thought for sure the 18 would increase the pulling power :confused:



Carl
 
SOTP dyno- Seat Of The Pants dyno.....

... . in other words, it FEELS just as fast, just dont have any concrete proff one way or nother. I see you dont have too many posts, Carl, so I thought I'd clarify that. In theory, the 12 should have had more bottom end pull, since it spools MUCH faster, which it does, but it fades quick; gets restrictive at higher RPM/ boost. The 18 is a LITTLE slower off the line, but better in the middle and top end, which is where I run more often than not. Still better than any new V8 offering, to say the least. :D ;). When I get the money, (read- win lottery), I plan on getting a 16 and in IC.



DP
 
Daniel, sounds like you're talking to me, with my PODS on the way. I have been thinking the exact same thing, when it comes to going smaller than the 18. Thought about going to a 16 but for the non-intercooled group or just mine, it already runs warm enough for me with the 18, stock injectors, no pump tweaks. After the PODS, pump tweaks, I'm sure I'll be looking for an intercooler, and maybe a bigger boost gauge- 22 psi now. Bill
 
bgilbert-

I would definitely recommend a 16 for you, then an intercooler. You can always control EGTs with your right foot. Just ask the Pastor about how hot is too hot. Think he's pegged his 1800 pyro a time or two; or come close, at least. :D ;)



Did some highway driving tonight. I have a MAJOR exhaust/ noise leak at the bottom of my downpipe; may have to get something cooler than a 3/32 6011 rod to use :rolleyes: to fix it. BUt, I noticed it didnt seem to work as hard to keep 65 up the hills, and it ran about the same temp once i got to speed. IF I had the money (or a female money bags, like some youngsters;) ), and IF I were having EGT issues, I might change things again. But for the price, it was hard to beat.



On a side note, how hot do you nonIC guys run at highway speeds, say 2000-2200RPM? I have been running 625-750 deg at 60mph, dep on ambient temp and headwinds. I was just curious, as this is my first nonIC truck. The unlacking trucks I've had ran about 450-550 at the same conditions, in the manifold.



Daniel
 
If I recall correctly, in either the last or second last TDR mag,

Joe D. confirmed that the 16 housing has the benefit of quicker spooling response, slightly higher boost numbers (about 2-3psi) over the 18. 5cm but the nice surprise is the 16 produces almost identical performance/air/backpressures as an 18. 5cm at the upper end..... so, the best of both worlds in most cases for us guys... .



Go with the 16 and tune your truck to "live with" the 16cm...



Pastor Bob...
 
I like the 16 housing. I do notice I hve to "push" the truck a little more from 80 mph and up... . but it's barely noticable.

The fact that it spools up at about 500 rpm less makes the truck much, much more driveable than with the stock 18.

At 70 mph and roughly 2000 rpm my EGTs run 600 to 700 *F if I'm on level ground (3 to 5 psi boost), might go to 750 on a small hill, 800 on a bigger hill. Those numbers are with an empty truck.

If I push hard up a hill as in a bonzai run (er, I mean a max boost check) I can get to 1100/1150 tops at 90 + mph.



I think that as The Pastor mentioned I'm tuned in pretty well right now for being non IC. I'll wait for summer temps, summer fuel, and see where I'm at before I tweak any more. The truck feels good to drive, and I'm not pushing the limits which means I don't have to become obsessed with stareing at the pyro all the time... I can just enjoy the ride.

That's what it's all about.

Jay
 
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