Switching to Ford

[JHardwick]

yet another BTW, for all the manufacturing jobs lost across the US, overall jobless rates are holding steady ... ... ... ... evolution!

 

[coobie]

My Dad was Union for 37 years and said "the Union never worked for me, only the lazy guy over in the corner"! The days of child labor and poor working conditions have been over for decades!



I probably shouldn't do this, but I'm going to.



Manufacturing is overseas and will remain overseas ... ... ... because of the Union and a natural manufacturing evolution! Germany and USA used to be the only place to find precision machined parts, that's no longer true.



I own a small non-union machine shop in a small town with some big industry ... ... ... had big industry!!



Big industry can move to other counties for the cheap labor AND get the parts to keep the machines running these days!



For a small town with no mall, we had PPG, DuPont, GE and RCA. Down the road was Kenworth and Mead. Not to mention several plastic injection molding plants. 3500 or more jobs have been lost in the last 3-4 years in this small area. Do you know what that does to the local economy and shops like mine?



RCA was my biggest customer, and seemed to be holding on. They had already felt the pressure from China and Mexico on the small tubes and decided to switch this plant to flat screen and HD. Get back into the high end market on tubes. All of us suppliers were asked for a consession and for the most part we agreed. Things were fast and furious ... ... . new drawings, daily contact with egineers, stacks of drawings to quote, we were re-tooling for the future, and then came the offer



You see, I didn't work for RCA, but I did.



This past March, RCA had contract negotiations coming up. RCA (Thomson Consumer Electronics) only offered a 1% raise to guys with a high school education making $20 plus and hour in a small town tending a production line. The Union declined and wanted 3%. The rest is history. Operations here were split between Poland, Mexico and China and 1600 people lost jobs. I have some buddies who are pro-union and stand behind what the union did here, but I disagree strongly!!



Back to my point ... ..... manufacturing will never be the same in the US. I've seen it evolve in my 20 years and see it getting worse in the next 20 years. Parts manufactured overseas are no longer junk. Just because it doesn't have a Union sticker on it doesn't mean it won't work.



I am currently liquidating assets to try and stay alive and have no ill will towards government or unions, its just a natural progession that I can survive ... ... ... . or not.



BTW, my truck was built in Mexico and I accept that I can't fight it.



BTW again, coobie, how often do you or your wife shop at WalMart? Just curious.

CHILL,first off I don,t shop at wal-mart. I believe in service after the sale. That,s why I shop at the mom and pop stores. Second My union electric linemen IBEW has made my job safer. Up until 1940 half of all electric lineman got killed on the job,do some checking on that stat. Believe it or not there are some postive things about a union,SAFTEY is my # 1 Job. There is no eraser on a linemans pencil when a death occurs. I agree all union workers are not up to snuff,there is nothing I can do about that. But that does not make all of us good union workers a hunk of *****. Maybe without the unions we can all be working for about $7. 00 bucks an hour with no benefits. Does that sound better to you??Sorry about the rant folks,this is a truck site not a labor site. coobie

 

[Jeremiah]

JHarwick, I hear you loud and clear. You are a realist in the trenches, don't like what's happening, but you still recognize that we live in a different world. You are adapting and, as a result, you will survive. I admire you.



We have a Walmart trying to come to our small town (Woodland Park, Colo. ). It's up in the air whether it will or not. WM has a contract to buy the property. The city council will have to decide what conditions to impose. Hanging in the balance are businesses like yours. It's a tough deal.



Thanks for hanging in there if you can. If not, good luck in whatever other endeavor you find yourself in.

 

[Punkineater]

I work in the IT industry and frankly every ex union employee i have ever had the displeasure to work with always expected to be paid more to do less. Funny because they have come to us as ex Union after they were finally layed off from their Union jobs. Unions are quite frankly old world, but were necessary in their time. These days Unions do nothing but cripple the employers and eventually kill the jobs they are trying to save.

 

[coobie]

I work in the IT industry and frankly every ex union employee i have ever had the displeasure to work with always expected to be paid more to do less. Funny because they have come to us as ex Union after they were finally layed off from their Union jobs. Unions are quite frankly old world, but were necessary in their time. These days Unions do nothing but cripple the employers and eventually kill the jobs they are trying to save.

Your right I guess I have crippled my employer buy working 50-100 hours a week for the last 27 years restoring peoples power. Remember thank a electric lineman next time you don,t have power. Oh that,s right the electrical fairy comes in the middle of the night and waves her magical wand and the power comes back on. Any day you want to strap on a set of climbing hooks and climbing belt and hoof a 100 ft pole full of ice with 14,000 live voltage in your hands,to get the power back on let me know. I will get you one of these crippling union jobs. coobie

 

[DocDetonancour]

Ford and Harley. . Loud n rough. . No doubt both will run the longest????

 

[JHardwick]

Sorry about the rant folks,this is a truck site not a labor site. coobie

Maybe you shoulda thought about that before you said ... ... ...

I,m with you diesel dog!! I have been in the UNION for 27 years. Its a darn same we keep shipping Jobs out of the USA. coobie

 

[JHardwick]

TY Jeremiah

 

[coobie]

Maybe you shoulda thought about that before you said ... ... ...

Im so sorry :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Jeremiah]

Coobie, a question or two ... you make some points, but who are you working for? Your first allegiance seems to be your customers, and that's good! Your second allegiance seems to be your employer, and that's good too. My first question is where does the union fit in all of this?



I see a user willing to pay a decent price for services rendered; a willing worker wanting to make a decent salary to provide services rendered, and a willing employer balancing what he takes in with what he can afford to pay out in order to provide the services the user is willing to pay.



In order for a union to fit into the equation, you have to assume someone (usually the employer) isn't holding up his end of the bargain. That may have been the case once, but I'm not sure it's the case now.



It seems to me that the market should control. If the employer doesn't pay decent wages, decent services aren't provided, the customer goes to another provider, and the employer goes out of business.



I am neither pro- nor anti-union, but I just don't see the logic of unions in today's environment. Maybe as a threat in case things go badly for workers, but not as an institutionalized organization that exists to perpetuate its own existence.



Thanks for listening. Educate me if I'm wrong.

 

[TSpecht]

In the place I work at (I am one of those Union employees), most of the guys I've worked with are at least close to an associates, and a few of them have their masters' degree. Why? Relative job security for one, and the pay rate/benefits for another reason.



My problem is with the CEO's and most other upper management (at the very least) taking a disproportionate amount of money that they probably do not deserve nor have earned. Even when most CEO's get the boot, they get a huge severance package, etc. My theory is that there would be no need to screw the guys at the bottom making things, if there were some better controls on how much of the profit is being eaten by the people at the top. I've seen all sorts of this junk, the old guy leaves, new guy wants a completely redesigned office, with better furniture, etc than the last guy. And then they wonder where the profts have gone, so they have to resort to screwing the guys at the bottom... Amazing how these people forget without someone making the product they'd be out of a job. The culture out there now is greed. Take as much as you can and give as little as possible back. This is usually most evident from the people who make decisions. The management whines about our 12% bonuses we sometimes get while they make more money off the bat and get as much as 40% bonuses. If anybody thinks that's fair or right, let me know, because I sure don't... With the poor decisions they seem to make sometimes, I think they should be giving money back to the company instead of taking bonuses.



That having been said I'm glad to see DC moving their production of the trucks back up into the US, at least if what I remember is correct...



Make sure you do some very thourough research before making a decision either way on a vehicle since it is a lot of money and a big decision you'll be stuck with for some time if some unforseen problems crop up. Good luck with whatever decision you make...

 

[coobie]

Maybe you shoulda thought about that before you said ... ... ...

??? Did I start this rant about unions or did you ??Just curious?? :{ coobie

 

[coobie]

Coobie, a question or two ... you make some points, but who are you working for? Your first allegiance seems to be your customers, and that's good! Your second allegiance seems to be your employer, and that's good too. My first question is where does the union fit in all of this?



I see a user willing to pay a decent price for services rendered; a willing worker wanting to make a decent salary to provide services rendered, and a willing employer balancing what he takes in with what he can afford to pay out in order to provide the services the user is willing to pay.



In order for a union to fit into the equation, you have to assume someone (usually the employer) isn't holding up his end of the bargain. That may have been the case once, but I'm not sure it's the case now.



It seems to me that the market should control. If the employer doesn't pay decent wages, decent services aren't provided, the customer goes to another provider, and the employer goes out of business.



I am neither pro- nor anti-union, but I just don't see the logic of unions in today's environment. Maybe as a threat in case things go badly for workers, but not as an institutionalized organization that exists to perpetuate its own existence.



Thanks for listening. Educate me if I'm wrong.

First of all I am here for the customer. PERIOD,maybe I am old school,the customer pays my wages. I will get his power back on even if it takes me 20 plus hours a day. Im pushing 50 years old so it isn,t easy,but it is my job. I work for a local power here in Michigan going on 27 years. When I first started back in 1976 the CEO made about $125,000 bucks a year, now the one that just raped our company and left made $4 million a year WOW what a difference. Stock was at $48 bucks a share,It got as low as $4 bucks a share,it is now $9. 85 a share. The wife and I work here(she is NON UNION) we have taken a $150,000 hit on our 401 K. Your question on providing service, the local power company has a monopoly on providing power,with no competion. My point being we have to make some sort of a stand or our children will not have a chance to make a decent living. There will be rich and poor. No middle class. coobie

 

[Punkineater]

Your right I guess I have crippled my employer buy working 50-100 hours a week for the last 27 years restoring peoples power. Remember thank a electric lineman next time you don,t have power. Oh that,s right the electrical fairy comes in the middle of the night and waves her magical wand and the power comes back on. Any day you want to strap on a set of climbing hooks and climbing belt and hoof a 100 ft pole full of ice with 14,000 live voltage in your hands,to get the power back on let me know. I will get you one of these crippling union jobs. coobie

Well I hate to burst your bubble, but there would still be linemen if we didn't have Unions and frankly without the Union they would be more versatile. Sorry, but do you honestly think that your job is dependent on the Union you are a member of? I would hope not. If you didn't have a Union would you still be a linemen? I would think yes.

 

[coobie]

Well I hate to burst your bubble, but there would still be linemen if we didn't have Unions and frankly without the Union they would be more versatile. Sorry, but do you honestly think that your job is dependent on the Union you are a member of? I would hope not. If you didn't have a Union would you still be a linemen? I would think yes. [/QUOTE You must be a Youngster :-laf Strap on the hooks and belt young one,See if you deserve the $$. Yes I think job is Dependent. Question?? Can you work 300 ft in the air and handle up to 345,000 volts without pi$$in your non union pants coobie...

 

[Punkineater]

Look Coob,

I'm not looking to be antagonistic and well I'm pushing 40, but still hold on to the young at heart theory . I honestly think you are a dedicated worker and out to service the customer. I believe you take pride in your work, but your Union stand is weak. They just aren't needed. Take those Union $$$ and reinvest them in cross training and other employee benefits. You will benefit as an Employee and your Employer will benefit in more versatile and better trained Employees. By the way I still do pride myself in the ability to lift heavy things and I don't think anyone could handle that high of voltage . Let's not make this more than it really is.

 

[JHardwick]

??? Did I start this rant about unions or did you ??Just curious?? :{ coobie

ummm, that would be you.

 

[coobie]

ummm, that would be you.

Hey thanks for keeping me straight. coobie

 

[JHardwick]

Hey thanks for keeping me straight. coobie

don't mention it, i hear old age can play tricks on the mind :-laf

 

[coobie]

Look Coob,

I'm not looking to be antagonistic and well I'm pushing 40, but still hold on to the young at heart theory . I honestly think you are a dedicated worker and out to service the customer. I believe you take pride in your work, but your Union stand is weak. They just aren't needed. Take those Union $$$ and reinvest them in cross training and other employee benefits. You will benefit as an Employee and your Employer will benefit in more versatile and better trained Employees. By the way I still do pride myself in the ability to lift heavy things and I don't think anyone could handle that high of voltage . Let's not make this more than it really is.

You got it my friend,And yes you can handle that voltage of a helicopter,its called bonding in. Or tower work. Watch the history channel sometime,they have the history of line work,very educational. You see not all of us UNION guys are dummies :-laf coobie