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Switching to Ford
- Thread starter Diesel Man
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Hate to put this thread back on track, but I went and drove an 05 Ford today to attempt to make an honest comparison.
I have never been partial to any brand until I bought my 04½ Dodge, this truck is simply amazing. The Ford I drove was also an extremely nice pickup. Engine idled very smooth and very quiet in the cab. Outside the PSD is louder at idle than the 600. I think Ford did a better job of insulating the cab. Steering was not as tight as my Dodge, and also seems to take alot more work to turn the Ford. The auto in the Ford shifted great (mine is a 6-speed so I can't compare), I preferred the way it shifted to the Allison slush box (I drove an 04 d-max before buying the Dodge). The interior is nice, but that's about it. I feel the materials are very cheap, but I think the seats are better in the Ford. Also, the Ford had rattles in the dash and from I could tell, in all 4 doors. To be fair, my Dodge developed a drivers door rattle, but this was after almost 13k miles. While driving it, I noticed you really have to get into the peddle to make it go, low end torque is just not there. Once the rpm's are up though, it really takes off, and would outrun the Dodge. Loaded up is another story I'm sure. I was so disappointed in the low end torque, I was asking myself how this thing can get a 19,200 pound trailer moving, which is what some models are claimed to tow. The ride is pretty similiar to the Dodge, but if you take a peek at the new front underpinnings, it is very similiar to the Dodge. Overall it is a nice truck that will most likely provide years of reliable service. But for a few thousand less, I feel my Dodge that was designed in AMERICA, and has an extremely high percentage of AMERICAN made components, that is merely ASSEMBLED in Mexico, is a better truck in most areas. Just as a side note, I've read that DC is moving all assembly operations of Ram diesels to the St. Louis North assembly plant. JMHO
Bert
I have never been partial to any brand until I bought my 04½ Dodge, this truck is simply amazing. The Ford I drove was also an extremely nice pickup. Engine idled very smooth and very quiet in the cab. Outside the PSD is louder at idle than the 600. I think Ford did a better job of insulating the cab. Steering was not as tight as my Dodge, and also seems to take alot more work to turn the Ford. The auto in the Ford shifted great (mine is a 6-speed so I can't compare), I preferred the way it shifted to the Allison slush box (I drove an 04 d-max before buying the Dodge). The interior is nice, but that's about it. I feel the materials are very cheap, but I think the seats are better in the Ford. Also, the Ford had rattles in the dash and from I could tell, in all 4 doors. To be fair, my Dodge developed a drivers door rattle, but this was after almost 13k miles. While driving it, I noticed you really have to get into the peddle to make it go, low end torque is just not there. Once the rpm's are up though, it really takes off, and would outrun the Dodge. Loaded up is another story I'm sure. I was so disappointed in the low end torque, I was asking myself how this thing can get a 19,200 pound trailer moving, which is what some models are claimed to tow. The ride is pretty similiar to the Dodge, but if you take a peek at the new front underpinnings, it is very similiar to the Dodge. Overall it is a nice truck that will most likely provide years of reliable service. But for a few thousand less, I feel my Dodge that was designed in AMERICA, and has an extremely high percentage of AMERICAN made components, that is merely ASSEMBLED in Mexico, is a better truck in most areas. Just as a side note, I've read that DC is moving all assembly operations of Ram diesels to the St. Louis North assembly plant. JMHO
Bert
Without unions SOME employers tend to take advantage of employees. Wal Mart is an example. Pay is lower for nonunion employees and working conditions can be whatever... and that includes safety. I'm not a fan of extreme unionism... there needs to be a balance.
Your SD is "ASSEMBLED" in the states. You would be surprised where all of the parts came from. I used to work for Ford, delivered engine blocks to Cleveland Engine Plant 2 in Brookpark, OH, from Windsor Ont, that's in Canada. Over the 5 years or so I pulled parts into that plant, the more containers I saw from mexico and china. I saw fewer American trucking company trailers, down to a handful by time we lost the contract to a Canadian company. We had a 10 year, 100% on time rating. Ford was moving "head" production out of Canada to Mexico, and eventually were working to get the bulk of there casting plants moved there too. I believe your windshield is also made in Mexico. Ford moved glass production there a few years ago, they have an 85% scrap rate, last I heard. And Ford still says it is cheaper to make glass in Mexico versus Dearborn MI.
My point is, Ford is a GLOBAL company, and of all of the auto manufactures I have worked for over the years, is probably the worst when it comes to keeping things here in the states. They are the Wal-Mart of auto manufactures. Heck, most of the Dearborn engineering staff barely speaks english. The engineering staff should be designing saddles for elephants, a vehicle that they are more atuned to.
Been around Ford for years, my grandfather used to report to H. F. Sr and Bennet, got a little history. That is why I drive the Dodge, and am very happy with my decision.
Mike
My point is, Ford is a GLOBAL company, and of all of the auto manufactures I have worked for over the years, is probably the worst when it comes to keeping things here in the states. They are the Wal-Mart of auto manufactures. Heck, most of the Dearborn engineering staff barely speaks english. The engineering staff should be designing saddles for elephants, a vehicle that they are more atuned to.
Been around Ford for years, my grandfather used to report to H. F. Sr and Bennet, got a little history. That is why I drive the Dodge, and am very happy with my decision.
Mike
Do you really think the Japanese car plants would be paying anything near what they do even being nonunion if it wasn't for the union ones? They ride the coattails of the unions. They pay just enough to keep them out. American Corporations put more money back into this country in taxes for school to infrastructure and what ever else this country needs. Funny how Costco sells way more per SF of store than Walmart and Walmart is worried. Costco is union. I never set foot in a Walmart and probably never will. Look at parts content of the vehicle for what is made here. I am not against trade but don't think it is fair when they go to Mexico were they have few environmental laws to abide by and just as few labor laws. Canada is not some third world nation. How does a union run if it is not an organization? They will just meet in the street when things get bad? Be happy with your imported products I look at every label I buy. I have an employee with a hat that has America flags and eagles on it made in Vietnam hope he enjoys wearing it. Like Lou Doobs says it's a race to the bottom. I could rant on this all day just keep buying foreign and be happy and I'll feel good about what I buy. I went to Sears for a plastic tool box yesterday all the Craftsman boxes were made in Mexico. The was another on there made in the USA I walked out with it under my smiling. Someone here in the USA has a few bucks in there pocket from making it. They wanted illegals to be able to get a license here but you can't do it in Mexico if you are illegal 
I also have a Excusion and it is very fast and pulls great. I am really a Chevy guy. I'd rather be looking at a Made in Kentucy or St. Louis windshield sticker when I was broke down than Made in Ensalata Mexico or wear ever the new F-750's are made sticker. Ford even seem proud of it.
I also have a Excusion and it is very fast and pulls great. I am really a Chevy guy. I'd rather be looking at a Made in Kentucy or St. Louis windshield sticker when I was broke down than Made in Ensalata Mexico or wear ever the new F-750's are made sticker. Ford even seem proud of it.Futile
This thread reminds me that one should add unions to politics and religion as topics never to be discussed. Coobie is a died-in-the-wool union man and will die that way (but hopefully not soon). And that's O. K. , he has the right. But it's true that when Coobie falls off that pole he is so dedicated to, there will be another feller down below ready to strap on spikes and take his place.
Life is neither fair nor unfair, it is what it is and those of us who live in it have to do the best we can to adjust to changing conditions. If we adjust, we keep on keeping on. If we don't, it's for sure we won't make it. Oh, in case someone asks, I am 68 years old and keeping on the best I can.
This thread reminds me that one should add unions to politics and religion as topics never to be discussed. Coobie is a died-in-the-wool union man and will die that way (but hopefully not soon). And that's O. K. , he has the right. But it's true that when Coobie falls off that pole he is so dedicated to, there will be another feller down below ready to strap on spikes and take his place.
Life is neither fair nor unfair, it is what it is and those of us who live in it have to do the best we can to adjust to changing conditions. If we adjust, we keep on keeping on. If we don't, it's for sure we won't make it. Oh, in case someone asks, I am 68 years old and keeping on the best I can.
I can tell you where the union fit into it for me. They trained me as an apprentice carpenter, gave me a decent wage for hard work, provided a decent insurance package for my pregnant wife and kids. And although they trained me to be a millwright, I decided after ten years in the union and lean times (early 80s) I would return to college and a different life path. In short the union was good to me.
Whenever we had a an opportunity to vote for a wage increase I turned it down. I was making a good wage and valued the health and insurance benefits. Basically, I didn't think we needed to be greedy.
However, I would like to make a comment which is unsubstantiated and only my suspicions. It seems to me many of the construction workers I see around now are latinos. Right up front I have nothing against latinos. My son in law is latino, my wife is Korean, and my grandkids are latino-korean-white. But I do wonder if construction jobs are being filled by illegal immigrants. And if so, they are mostlikely getting screwed. The companies will do whatever it takes to expand their bottom line, naturally.
The next song and dance we will hear from the construction trades - just like the agriculture and service industries whine - will be we can't compete unless we hire illegals. A while back there were some articles in the Washington Times about the fallacy of "needing illegals" for the agricultural industries. Basically, instead of mechanizing to stay competative, the agricultural industries are subsidized through illegal workers, and the rest of society (thats you) picks up the tab for the social, education, and health costs.
What was this thread about anyway? Oh yeah, Fords - who cares.
I can tell you where the union fit into it for me. They trained me as an apprentice carpenter, gave me a decent wage for hard work, provided a decent insurance package for my pregnant wife and kids. And although they trained me to be a millwright, I decided after ten years in the union and lean times (early 80s) I would return to college and a different life path. In short the union was good to me.
Whenever we had a an opportunity to vote for a wage increase I turned it down. I was making a good wage and valued the health and insurance benefits. Basically, I didn't think we needed to be greedy.
However, I would like to make a comment which is unsubstantiated and only my suspicions. It seems to me many of the construction workers I see around now are latinos. Right up front I have nothing against latinos. My son in law is latino, my wife is Korean, and my grandkids are latino-korean-white. But I do wonder if construction jobs are being filled by illegal immigrants. And if so, they are mostlikely getting screwed. The companies will do whatever it takes to expand their bottom line, naturally.
The next song and dance we will hear from the construction trades - just like the agriculture and service industries whine - will be we can't compete unless we hire illegals. A while back there were some articles in the Washington Times about the fallacy of "needing illegals" for the agricultural industries. Basically, instead of mechanizing to stay competative, the agricultural industries are subsidized through illegal workers, and the rest of society (thats you) picks up the tab for the social, education, and health costs.
Edit: PS: forgot - someday, if everything goes as planned, I will also have some retirement bucks from the union plan. Sorry about the double posts - think twice, post once, maybe, neh?
2cnd Edit: PS: My best friend was a carpenter-millwright for over 25 years. He went through a second floor hatchway and sustained an disabilitating injury. Construction can eat a fellar up. The union's rehab program paid for his college to become a civil engineer. Without it he very well could have ended up a "greeter" at WalMart.
What was this thread about anyway? Oh yeah, Fords - who cares.
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Not trying to pry in to the Nonunion or union but i am a Union IBEW inside wireman apprintace . We have to go through 5 years of school and on the job training to become a Journeyman . So when your working with another journeyman you know he knows what he is doing and you will not get fryed working with him. Im sure there are good nonunion electicians out there but i would be nervous working with guys that were just hired out of a paper add So they have done me good kept me employed and alive
So they have done me good kept me employed and alive
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TrailDog, you make a lot of sense. You too, BKenny. But lemme ask a question. Y'all say the union trained you and gave you a decent wage, union will pay your retirement, etc. Don't you mean your EMPLOYER paid you those wages?
I have a great respect for union guys who know when they are well off - or relatively well off - and they don't go for higher and higher wages and benefits. And those Delta airline pilots who gave up a third of their wages to keep the company solvent are to be congratulated. But weren't excessive union demands at least PART of the problem that got the company in trouble? Pilot salaries of $300,000 a year seems like a lot of money when you've got a few thousand pilots on the payroll.
Hey, I'm just asking. Maybe we should ask the moderator to send this stuff to a separate thread. It seems to be taking on a life of its own.
I have a great respect for union guys who know when they are well off - or relatively well off - and they don't go for higher and higher wages and benefits. And those Delta airline pilots who gave up a third of their wages to keep the company solvent are to be congratulated. But weren't excessive union demands at least PART of the problem that got the company in trouble? Pilot salaries of $300,000 a year seems like a lot of money when you've got a few thousand pilots on the payroll.
Hey, I'm just asking. Maybe we should ask the moderator to send this stuff to a separate thread. It seems to be taking on a life of its own.
Let's see if we can get back to the original message of this thread - again. I just finished working at a local Ford dealer as a service writier/advisor. I wish you the best on your new Ford, but I shake my head in wonder at all the Fords sitting outside the service bays waiting for new glow plugs and/or glow plug relays and/or injectors and/or fuel tank sending units - or any combination of all of these. They were coming in 4 and 5 each morning running rough and hard to start. Invariably it was at least one of the three previously mentioned reasons. It seemed that if the two injectors that weren't working right were replaced, the truck would be back a couple weeks later to have 2 or 3 other injectors replaced. Another reason they would come in running rough was the computer would need to be re-flashed.
As I told our 'stroke tech just before I left, "as long as there are Fords with glow plugs, you'll have a job. " He smiled and agreed - it's called 'job security'.
The only way I'd have one is for Ford to give it to me free and clear - then I'd sell it and buy a new Dodge & Cummins.
Wayne
As I told our 'stroke tech just before I left, "as long as there are Fords with glow plugs, you'll have a job. " He smiled and agreed - it's called 'job security'.
The only way I'd have one is for Ford to give it to me free and clear - then I'd sell it and buy a new Dodge & Cummins.
Wayne
Jeremiah said:
JD power just released their longterm study. The ford powerstroke was the only one that wasnt economical. It costed more to own and operate than a gasoline engine. The duramax suprising was slightly better than the cummins. But the cummins had fewer problems. Even with the lift pumps the cummins is dead reliable. The PSD has 450% more problems than the cummins. This is the old "reliable" 7. 3 too. Not that modern (unfixable) mechanical marvel that ford got to buy back so many of.
YOU WILL BE BACK, I have had 4 Dodges and bought a Ford in July. Now its time to watch my pennies so I can get back into a Dodge!! The powerstroke is in my opinion like driving a pinto compared to a mustang. The Cummins just has so much more low end grunt and ease of drivability. The company I pull for has over 600 drivers and I can say other than little problems the least complaints come from Dodge boys. The 6. 0 Fords are just not holding up at all. Good luck with the 6. 0, maybe you will be one of the few lucky guys that get a good one. Karl
50,000 seems a bit high. Is this in print anywhere. They are convinced its still only 500. My personal instinct thinks it should be under, but close to, 10000.
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