Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Symptoms of a dying VP44

[HillCountrykid]

As of 3 weeks ago my truck has developed a pretty nasty stumble that has only gotten worse lately. At first it did it just below 2000 rpm, and later it would do it at 2400~2500 rpm. Now it's doing it over alot wider rpm range. Even the timing sounds off. It clatters much more, kind of like loose valves. Among a couple non-relavent codes, 0216 and 0253 have shown up. 0122, the low APPS voltage code, is in there too but I swapped the APPS 2 days ago with no improvement. Is there anyone who has had a pump die have any of these symptoms? After biting a $450 bullet on the APPS, I don't want to swap pumps without knowing that the pump is dying. Thanks for any help.



Brian

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

And how is that holley pump? Any idea what fuel pressures are? That 216 is an indicator to a dead VP44.

 

[HillCountrykid]

Holley went on about 4 or 5 weeks ago. 14 psi @ idle and no less than 8 or 9 WOT. The stock lift pump got down to 4 or so WOT, but it never died, I just wanted something more reliable and bring the pressures up a bit.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

The stumble started about the same time the Holly Pump went on. Is your Fuel Pressure guage Workin O. K? (Sounds like a weird question) As it's odd that this takes place at the same time of the install. (Or even air bound for a bit could have killed the VP44?)



The



P0216 (M) Fuel Injection Pump Timing Failure High fuel supply restriction, low fuel pressure or possible

wrong or incorrectly installed pump keyway



P0253 (M) Fuel Injection Pump Fuel Valve

Open Circuit

Problem sensed with fuel circuit internal to fuel injection

pump.



Codes Point to a dead pump.

 

[HillCountrykid]

I replaced the sending unit on the FP gauge just after the Holley because of some crazy readings. Gauge works correctly again.



I was wondering about getting air in the inj. pump since I did get some in there when I pulled the fuel line. It was a bear to get started, but I did'nt have to crack any inj. lines. I was about to, but it fired up, so maybe letting the air out faster might have been a smart thing to do. I thought that it was just a coincidence that the problems started right after I put the Holley on, but maybe it's the culprit.



I'm assuming that the VP44 is bad, but would like some reassurance before I waste money on one when mine is still good. But with the codes I'm getting, it's not looking good.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The possible likelihood of air in the line, either due to line leakage or from a filter install, is one of the reasons I consistently use a good fuel lubricity additive - to protect the sensitive pump during those events...

 

[mmclaughlin]

Where are you monitoring your fuel pressure? Does that Holley go right where the stock pump goes, or did you relocate the pump? Make sure all your fitting are on good and that you have no air leaks in the system. Take a good look at everything and try to see if you have any fuel seeping out anywhere. I'm assuming you tried changing out the fuel filter? It sounds like a bad pump, but it's worth checking everything else first.



Maybe a little late now, but whenever the VP44 looses fuel (changing fuel lines, adding fuel pressure guages, changing filters, etc) I always crack the suction side of the VP44 just a hair and then bump the starter (don't try to start) until fuel starts coming out. Remember, if you use this method, the pump will run for another 2-3 seconds after you turn your key to the off position after bumping the starter. This may not sound like a lot, but believe me, if you crack the line too much you can get a LOT of fuel coming out of there (especially if you have an aftermarket set-up like a FASS system or a Holley pump). Once you get the air out up to that point, tighten up the fitting (do this as soon as possible because air will just get back into the system if you leave this fitting cracked) and bump the starter again to purge any air left in the system. After that fire it up and you should be good to go! I use this method and I have gotten to the point where the engine doesn't even miss a beat.



Good luck!

 

[HillCountrykid]

The Holley is back at the tank.



I loosened the line at the inj. pump to as much of the air out as possible, just like you stated.



Fuel pressure has never been below 4 psi or so.



The truck is getting a new VP44, and I should have it back tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

 

[HillCountrykid]

Had the pump replaced by the dealer (they could have it back in one day, and I needed the truck) and now it seems to be running o. k. It certainly is worlds better, and I think I'm just really paranoid so every odd sound freaks me out.



Something unexpected that changing pumps fixed was my bouncing fuel pressure gauge. Before it would bounce about 1~1. 5 psi. Now it's as smooth as silk. Is there some sort of valve in the inj. pump that could be letting a little pressure back into the supply line? The pressures are also a pound or two lower than before, so maybe it was being pressurized a little.



We'll see how it drives this weekend.



Brian

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Originally posted by mmclaughlin

if you crack the line too much you can get a LOT of fuel coming out of there (especially if you have an aftermarket set-up like a FASS system or a Holley pump).



Good luck!

LOL That reminds me of my first purge when I installed the Pe4200. I didn't quite figure THAT much fuel would flow :-laf .



Anyhow



HCK, There allways was an issue with sending units getting "Hammerd" by the VP44. That is the main issue for installing an 18" piece of braided line , grease gun hose , etc inbetween the VP44 and your sending unit. The vibration alone from the VP transmits back thru the fuel and does wonderful things to an otherwise unsuspecting fuel pressure sending unit. The "Extension" Acts like a snubber and helps smooth out readings and save units. Now Being yours is showing less fluctuation may in part be due to an updated VP44. (I believe there were 4 revisions scince 1999?) anyways some of the parasitic vibrations were addressed with larger valves etc from what I can gather from reading.

 

[dpetre]

My injection pump was declared dead last Friday. My truck would go from 65 to 50 mph and then back up. If I stopped and shut the engine off it would work fine for a few minutes. Two weeks ago I installed a FASS but had not installed my fuel Gage yet. got a Po500 code but could not find any thing wrong. I showed a 1693 code but I found no loose connections. I checked my grounds and cleaned my battery posts. On Thursday my wife called and said the Dodge dealer had called about my appointment that I had scheduled for Friday for scheduled maintenance. I had not made an appointment so I called the dealer and was going to cancel the appointment and change my minded and went. I got to talk with the mechanic and said my vehicle was the fourth this week with a bad injection pump. He said the winter diesel is bad on the seals and it kills the pumps. They also said I was covered by the cummins warranty. I sure hope this works and I get my truck back.

 

[HillCountrykid]

Tim, I have about 24" or so of braided line between the vp44 and the sending unit plus a snubber. Before I put the Holley on it was always smooth for about 2 years. It worked fine for the test run after the Holley was installed, but the next day it was bouncing. It was a week later that I noticed the engine running a little funny, so I don't know if they are related. I hope not because it was bouncing again last night for a couple of hours.



dpetre, I sure hope the dealer picks up the bill for you. Total for me was $1758. I could have bought the pump cheaper and done it myself, but I needed my truck so I let them do it since they could have it ready the next day. When I picked it up, it was even washed for me.



I got to drive it a little, well maybe more than a little this weekend. I went on a date with a girl that lives about 80 miles away, plus we drove to San Antonio which is 25 miles or so away from her house. So I put at least 300 or 350 total miles on it and it seems to be doing fine.



Kind of off topic, but after getting the door for her and going around and hopping in my side, her first words were "I liiiike your truck". Don't they all?



Brian