Just was told by someone who drives the big rigs on the oil fields that they have sludge buildup problems in their diesel engines-detroit diesel and Cummins. Apparently when synthetic oil is used the buildup problems are not present; while those trucks which use regular oil have sludge buildup problems-- and in the future develop engine problems due to the use of regular engine oil. Does using synthtic oil eliminate the possibility of that happening or is that not a factor?
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Synthetic oil reason?
- Thread starter grincon
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Most people wont touch these kinds of questions because they have been known to get very heated. The fact is, synthetic DOES do a better job at controlling sludge and some other things.
But there's no reason at all to think that sludge would be a problem with Delo 400 or Rotella at frequent oil changes. These are highly detergent oils, and do a good job of cleaning out the internals.
Whether or not it's worth the extra money to you is a whole other story.
HOHN
I won't get into the pros or cons of each. . You can do a search for oil and I'm sure you'll find plenty to read. I run a little of each in my vehicle. Synthetic in the diff and tcase. Dino in the transmission and engine.
Just for reference, the Cummins that went over 1 million miles without an engine rebuild did it with Rotella T and 5,000 mile oil/filter changes.
Regular oil changes will prevent sludge buildup.
Just for reference, the Cummins that went over 1 million miles without an engine rebuild did it with Rotella T and 5,000 mile oil/filter changes.
Regular oil changes will prevent sludge buildup.
Anyone done analysis between the two? I'm contemplating switching to synthetic myself and I've been using Delo 400, changing it out every 4k and getting good numbers back on the analysis.
Just wondering how much longer of a drain interval I'd get going to synthetic.
Just wondering how much longer of a drain interval I'd get going to synthetic.
Check this site for oil information www.bobistheoilguy.com
Synthetic vs non synthetic?
Search will give you lots of good and so-so info. Might be worth covering again without getting into brand preferences.
Been in oil business for 20 yrs-here is what I have learned.
Two ways to skin this cat!
1- Use good non synthetic and chang at 5,000 miles. If heavy towing-around 3,500 miles.
2-Use good synthetic (some are better than others) and get 10,000 miles (light towing) and 7,500 miles (heavy towing).
These milages as generalizations and need to be adjusted for personal conditions.
Lots of misconceptions about synthetics! Fact is- only 2 advantages to using them.
1-Thermal Stability-If your oil gets hot, over 200 degrees, for any lenght of time, synthetics will protect better and NOT cause gum, varnish, carbon to sludge up your engine. and they will return to more usable condition after being worked hard.
2-Because of #1, and the fact that synthetic oil is a cleaner molecule, it lasts longer - Ball park = twice as long. At todays prices synthetics are fairly cost effective due this fact.
Note: Good filters do not need to be changed more often
than oil if above change intervals are used.
Note: Changing oil & filter often is cheapest insurance we have against poor running, hard starting, high maintenance engines at 100,00 or 200,000 miles.
Note: Good fuel conditioner will give same benefits down the road by keeping upper half of engine clean!
Search will give you lots of good and so-so info. Might be worth covering again without getting into brand preferences.
Been in oil business for 20 yrs-here is what I have learned.
Two ways to skin this cat!
1- Use good non synthetic and chang at 5,000 miles. If heavy towing-around 3,500 miles.
2-Use good synthetic (some are better than others) and get 10,000 miles (light towing) and 7,500 miles (heavy towing).
These milages as generalizations and need to be adjusted for personal conditions.
Lots of misconceptions about synthetics! Fact is- only 2 advantages to using them.
1-Thermal Stability-If your oil gets hot, over 200 degrees, for any lenght of time, synthetics will protect better and NOT cause gum, varnish, carbon to sludge up your engine. and they will return to more usable condition after being worked hard.
2-Because of #1, and the fact that synthetic oil is a cleaner molecule, it lasts longer - Ball park = twice as long. At todays prices synthetics are fairly cost effective due this fact.
Note: Good filters do not need to be changed more often
than oil if above change intervals are used.
Note: Changing oil & filter often is cheapest insurance we have against poor running, hard starting, high maintenance engines at 100,00 or 200,000 miles.
Note: Good fuel conditioner will give same benefits down the road by keeping upper half of engine clean!
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While cruising around on the Cummins website I came across some interesting info on synthetic lubricants. Cummins states that using synthetics to extend the time between changes is not recommended. For that reason I use Delo 400 and change it every 5,000 miles. Some of the sharper folks on this forum have done extensive testing of the oil and have found it still has a lot of life in it even at 8,000 miles. Use good oil, change it a regular intervals, and drive it like you stole it!
I had an 82 Toyota 4X4 that I put 247,000 miles on. All I ever used was good quality oil and Toyota filters. It was using half a quart of oil between oil changes (5,000 miles) when I sold it.
I had an 82 Toyota 4X4 that I put 247,000 miles on. All I ever used was good quality oil and Toyota filters. It was using half a quart of oil between oil changes (5,000 miles) when I sold it.
I'm a big confused after visiting this site. Take a look at his gear oil page. I logged off with the impression he was saying synthetic oil was worse than a good conventional.
From looking at that page I think he is saying that the Schefiers synthetic blend is better than the Amsoil, when it comes to water separation. The site has good people posting and good info on oil. Use what you want and believe what you want. Amsoil in my diff is good enough for me since I don't plan on adding water
There is no problem switching back and forth from synthetics to dino oils.
Seems like a more expensive way to go with no potential benefit IMHO.
Seems like a more expensive way to go with no potential benefit IMHO.
I am planning on using Dino 15w-40 Rotella T in the summer months and "synthetic" 5w-40 Rotella T in the winter. Heck... . I may just use the "syth" all year round since it is only $12 a gallon.
amsoilman
Staff Alumni
In plain English, synthetic lubricants are designed to handle temperature extremes, especially heat. They reduce frictional heat and transfer heat away from critical components faster. They also resist heat breakdown much better than petroleum-based lubes.
In scientific terms, synthetic lubes have higher lubricity and higher thermal conductivity.
Conventional lubricants rely mainly on additives for their performance. Their petroleum base fluids are physically separated from crude oil during refining. Petroleum base fluids contain impurities of varying types and amounts (wax crystals and sulfur compounds, etc. ). These impurities make the lubricant less stable, providing molecular "targets" where heat and chemical contaminants can "attack".
Conventional lubricants are refined from crude oil which has thousands of types of molecules. Refining is a process of physically separating the impurities from the oil and further separating the light and heavy components. Because refining separates products by weight, it groups molecules of similar weight and dissimilar structure. The result is a lubricant with a wide assortment of molecules. Some of the substances in crude oil are detrimental to lubrication. Paraffins, for example, are a common conventional oil contaminant that causes motor oil to thicken in cold temperatures.
Synthetic motor oils are made from pure chemicals, not refined crude. Their components are chemically reacted to produce finished products with pre-designed performance characteristics. Because of their molecular uniformity, they excel in reducing friction, which improves fuel efficiency, controls heat and reduces wear. This molecular uniformity also helps synthetics resist thinning in hot temperatures and thickening in cold.
Oil heated in the presence of air oxidizes. As a result of this oxidation, viscosity and acid formation increase. Deposits such as varnish and lacquer form on hot metal surfaces and may further oxidize to form sludge and hard carbonaceous materials.
Oxidation increases exponentially as temperature increases. Large amounts of air (oxygen) also increase the oxidation rate. Materials such as metals (copper) and acids act as catalytic agents or oxidation promoters.
Synthetic oils due not oxidize as easily due to the above.
Hope this helps,
Wayne
amsoilman
In scientific terms, synthetic lubes have higher lubricity and higher thermal conductivity.
Conventional lubricants rely mainly on additives for their performance. Their petroleum base fluids are physically separated from crude oil during refining. Petroleum base fluids contain impurities of varying types and amounts (wax crystals and sulfur compounds, etc. ). These impurities make the lubricant less stable, providing molecular "targets" where heat and chemical contaminants can "attack".
Conventional lubricants are refined from crude oil which has thousands of types of molecules. Refining is a process of physically separating the impurities from the oil and further separating the light and heavy components. Because refining separates products by weight, it groups molecules of similar weight and dissimilar structure. The result is a lubricant with a wide assortment of molecules. Some of the substances in crude oil are detrimental to lubrication. Paraffins, for example, are a common conventional oil contaminant that causes motor oil to thicken in cold temperatures.
Synthetic motor oils are made from pure chemicals, not refined crude. Their components are chemically reacted to produce finished products with pre-designed performance characteristics. Because of their molecular uniformity, they excel in reducing friction, which improves fuel efficiency, controls heat and reduces wear. This molecular uniformity also helps synthetics resist thinning in hot temperatures and thickening in cold.
Oil heated in the presence of air oxidizes. As a result of this oxidation, viscosity and acid formation increase. Deposits such as varnish and lacquer form on hot metal surfaces and may further oxidize to form sludge and hard carbonaceous materials.
Oxidation increases exponentially as temperature increases. Large amounts of air (oxygen) also increase the oxidation rate. Materials such as metals (copper) and acids act as catalytic agents or oxidation promoters.
Synthetic oils due not oxidize as easily due to the above.
Hope this helps,
Wayne
amsoilman
synthetic oil
Mobil 1 did a commercial a couple of years ago, do you remember it? A guy had two fruing pans, in one he put about a pint of dino oil, in the other he put the same amount of mobil 1 synthetic oil. he then put both on the burner, not sure how long since only a 30 sec commercial but in the end the regular oil had turned completly to varnish and sludge, while the synthetic was still flowing!
heat eventually will kill your engine. changing oil often will get rid of "old" oil with sludge and varnish build up, (most trapped by filter but still some in oil), but if you over heat a lot more build up. synthetic oil and frequent change will be added "insurance".
Mobil 1 did a commercial a couple of years ago, do you remember it? A guy had two fruing pans, in one he put about a pint of dino oil, in the other he put the same amount of mobil 1 synthetic oil. he then put both on the burner, not sure how long since only a 30 sec commercial but in the end the regular oil had turned completly to varnish and sludge, while the synthetic was still flowing!
heat eventually will kill your engine. changing oil often will get rid of "old" oil with sludge and varnish build up, (most trapped by filter but still some in oil), but if you over heat a lot more build up. synthetic oil and frequent change will be added "insurance".
Synthetics are better for extreme protection. Now the question is do you need extreme protection??? I don't, you might. If you live where it is below "0" and you can't plug in your truck, use synthetic. If you pull loads that are close to the max. in Arizonia in the summer when the temperature is over 100 degrees use synthetic. If you just love your truck so much that only the best will do and even if it will last for 500,000 miles using dino oil you want it to last for 1,000,000 then use synthetic it "might" help it last but it "might not" be any better than using dino oil and changing it every 5,000 miles. 
Most of the 1,000,000 mile trucks that I have read about in the TDR ran Rotella T 15w40. I guess they most of used them under ideal conditions :-laf
Most of the 1,000,000 mile trucks that I have read about in the TDR ran Rotella T 15w40. I guess they most of used them under ideal conditions :-lafAnd why do you think that they say that? You think that they might be saying that simply because they don't want to open themselves to a liability suit? Think about it. If they go and say that syn. oil allows for extended drains and someone ruins their engine because they used the wrong oil or did something else wrong then that idiot is going to try and go after Cummins for a new engine.
Extended oil drains don't happen more often because of $$$. The oil companies don't want them. The oil and lube places don't want them. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the oil. Even most on this site are to stubborn (I could use a different word but this is nicer) to get beyond 3K mile changes. That is simply a waste of money and a waste of oil. Imagine how much less oil we'd have to import if most of the vehicles in this country went to 20K mile changes with syn. oil. It would be possible if new vehicles came with better filtration systems for both the air intake and oil.
Personally I don't plan on changing my engine oil in my truck ever again unless the sample tells me to.
They say it has to do with soot and other types of contamination getting in the oil. Visit their website for the details.
I change mine at 5,000 mile intervals which is probably still too often. Think of all the people who visit the oil changer shops at 3,000 mile intervals! I could go to the time and expense of testing the oil and changing it when the test results show that the oil is reaching the end of it's life. The tests take time and cost money. All this adds to the TCO of the vehicle. I get my oil for $6 a gallon and filters are $9. My oil change (materials only) costs me $27, a price I'm willing to pay every 5K miles for peace of mind.
I use Amsoil 15W40 100% synthetic and plan to change it every 7500 miles, which just happens to be the recommended oil change interval by Dodge for conventional oil. It keeps me 100% within the suggested intervals, but long enough to get the value out of the synthetic. Since I don't do my own oil changes, if I can go from 3000 to 7500 mile changes, it saves a bunch on money in labor and less than 1/2 the trips to the dealer (or where ever) to get it changed. I would consider Mobil 1 Delvac, if I could ever find the stuff. I've never seen it in any retail stores or truck stops. Go figure.
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