Table Saw Opinions Please

[KMC]

Hey, getting ready to buy my first table saw. Mostly for home improvements, hobby projects, etc. The highest budget I can justify is in the $400 range.



Right now the two I have narrowed it down to are the:



Ryobi BT3000 at HD for $369. 00

or

JET JWTS-10JF at Costco for $415 after rebate.



Anywone with experience with these saws? Other comparable recommendations?



Thanks, Ken

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I have the Ryobi BT3000 as does Dad. We both love it. I use the he!! out of the router table.



It's nice and light so you can move it alone... . Get the optional caster set, money well spent... . and big enough to do about all you need to do.



If you will work with large stock alone (4x8 sheets of plywood) the light weight can hinder things. A couple of sand bags fixes that though.



I'd buy it again. It's been through 3 big projects and still works like new.



Later,

Mark

 

[stg2500]

Jet all the way

I've had my Jet for about ten years and absolutely love it. I found when I bought the saw that it had the best and greatest capacity rip fence of any of the saws within that price range. It has definaetely provided me with a lot of great service.

 

[RJ2]

Find an old rockwell unisaw. I have found many of them at the auctions for around 500, some had the biesmeyer fences.

Then you'll have something that will last forever.

 

[1BIG44]

Might want to take a look at the Dewalt saw. Maybe a little more, but that fence is very nice for a low end saw.



Wes

 

[The Sequel]

If those are your only options, go with the Jet for sure.

 

[PHaller]

What table saw?

Buy the best you can afford. Look for a used Powermatic, Unisaw, or maybe an old Tanawitz or Oliver. Don't buy a cheapy 380$ saw... it will always be out of adjustment and you will never be happy with stamped fences.

A table saw by definition is used primarily for cabinet work. Sawing up panels and such. It works well doing ripping of rough stock. It does not do well cross cutting. Thats best left to a Radial arm saw. Inexpensive saws can't hold up to rough use and are a major pain to keep square,if you can even get them that way at all. Radial saws are best used to crosscut rough stock and IMHO, sould not be used for ripping. The truth is, that for limited use, the circular saw used carefully can do almost anything a table saw can do just harder and slower. In fact, I have used a model 77 bolted to a piece of plywood upside down as a table saw with a 2x4 as a rip fence in a pinch.

As an old cabinet maker and carpenter, my favorite saw is an old Powermatic but they are very hard to find. They will last a lifetime though. Remember that the saws you are looking at are really job site saws. Portable table saws. A REAL table saw that is used for cabinet work is not portable. Portable saws approximate the table saw and are used as a substitute saw at a site for ease, not for accuracy. If you are ok with a site saw the Dewalt is my favorite of the bunch. It is very flexable for different set ups and includes the sliding table and a good router base but they are pricy. I don't really care for the high speed universal motors associated with site saws. I would look for an induction motor if they are offered. They are more durable and far less loud then their universal cousins.

-Paul R. Haller-

 

[KMC]

Thanks for the feedback so far and thanks for the table saw clarification. I am lookling for what is called a "contractor" type saw. At this point I am leaning toward the JET. Not as many bells and Whistles as the Ryobi but it is built like a tank and has the more powerful quiter induction motor that Paul mentions. This JET is normally found for about $550, but Coscto has a bunch with the older blue JET paint scheme for $439 - $25 rebate and it comes with 2 Freud blades. The JET also get's rave reviews by most of the woodworking mag's, and ton's of users on usenet. I don't think it is a cheap saw but it is definetly not high end either. For my intended uses it makes no sense to spend a pile of dough.



I actually have a 30 year old Dewalt Radial Arm saw that can be used for cross-cuts. I am wanting a table saw for ripping, my first project being a new kithcen floor which will invlove puting down a bunch of cdx for underlayment and laminate flooring on top of that. I am not real comfortable ripping with the RA saw either (not to mention the size limitation) and I do not find it to be very accurate for that anyhow.



I could use the skilsaw for the underlayment but am worried about not getting a straigh cut on the laminate or hashing it with a circular saw.



Ken

 

[Gray Ghost]

Piece of advice from an old codger. Save your money and

buy a quality piece of equipment. I learned the hard way

when I was young. You will never be happy with cheap

and it is dangerous. The Jet is a saw you can grow into,

but I would buy a Delta. Woodworkers' Supply has a 10"

Delta Contractor for $449 with free shiping. Go to www.woodworker.com. My 2 cents

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

The ryobi is a very well built saw. It's just built from aluminum and magnesium to make it portable. It is very quiet and durable and seems to be precise and accurate.



I chose it when we bought one for dad because I needed to be able to load it in the truck alone. It weighs about 75 lbs. That is the only problem with it. It can be too light when working with large stock.



I liked it a lot so Mom and Dad bought me one for my Birthday 2 years ago. Theirs is 3. 5 yrs old. Neither of us have had any trouble after triming out 5 houses and using the first one to rout 4000 board ft of lumber using a bosch router in the table.



If you are limited on space as I have been being able to move it easily and take it with you some where outwieghs the other very minor faults.



All my other tools are dewalt and porter cable (12" compund miter, screw guns, air nailers of all sorts, circular saw, jig saws etc) but I really like the ryobi table saw. It fits heavy home use and contractor use very well.



FWIW,

Mark

 

[PHaller]

For laying a laminate floor, like Pergo or Wisonart, all you will need are a circular saw and a portable jig saw for cutting odd outlines. I would certainly use a sliding crosscut saw, chop saw, or a radial saw for cross cutting the laminate pieces... it's a ton faster then using the circular saw and always square, but a circular saw works too. Be forewarned, when cutting laminate flooring because the laminate is really hard and it will chip. Use the sharpest carbide blades and cut the pieces upside down on scrap to eliminate chipped cuts. Feed stock slowly, laminate flooring has a habit of kicking back if fed too fast. After a floor installation, any carbide blade used is useless until resharpened.

As for the underlayment, muscling around 4X8 sheets on a table saw is hard especially if you'll be working alone. I'd use the circular saw and a chalk box line to follow. Or, if you can't manage accurate cuts using that method, use a clamping guide. Most cabinet makers will tell you that a table saw is great for cutting managable pieces to exacting standards but to cut a 4X8 plywood piece to size is really hard to do with a table saw. A panel saw is used for that. But, most of us don't have one.

A general rule of thumb is, If the piece is to big to handle easily, take the saw to the piece. If the piece is of managable size, take the piece to the saw.

You'll also need an undercut hand saw for under cutting trim and door jambs.

-Paul R. Haller-Oo. Oo.

 

[KMC]

Paul, thanks again for you comments. Based on what you are saying I may be able to get by without a table saw for now. This of course will give me time to save up for a better one down the line What do you suggest for ripping the laminate pieces lengthwise? I could use the RAS for that, however I really need to replace the table and the fence as they are shot. What makes good table material? and how do you make sure you get the replacement table on square?



Also regarding a jig saw, who makes a good one? Since that seems more aplicable to the project at hand I will probably pick one up. I have a very old craftsman that still runs but is pretty shot (another tool I got from my Dad). The bosh 1587AVSK has gotten great reviews and that is where I was headed.



Hope you don't mind the additional questions... .



Ken

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Porter cable and dewalt bot make very nice jig (sabre) saws.



I like the dewalt for the quick change angles and blades. It's not cheap though, but niether is the porter.

 

[pathaymond]

save your money and wait for the opportunity to buy a high end table saw I would use a good skill saw and a good jig saw until I could afford the real deal. all portable saws are just that portable saws I have one myself and its junk I am a wood worker by trade so I have modified my portable for my needs but when its critical to be right I use my massive delta unisaw thats the only way to fly. if you want to purchase a real jig saw buy a Bosch and forget ever buying another jig saw I have one that is 10 years old and I use it at least once a week alot of times everyday. you can do alot with a good skill saw and straight edge and clamps just my two cents worth. remember always use caution and never make cuts that are going to make you off balance. good luck

 

[dan_gilson]

You will be able to get about 10x the saw by going with a used saw. Even a contractors one. I have an old Sears. It is about 45 years old. It has a heavy case table that does not vibrate. I did a bit of elbow grease to it. I changed the pullys to new machined ones. I also replaced the belt with a link belt. The best thing that I did to it was put on a biesmeyer fense.



This setup works pretty well as long as I do not have to cut hardwood in the 8/4 (2x) and larger range. I have made a number of pieces of furiture with it and it performs well considering that it needs a new arbor bearing.



You can find a used saw in the range of $100-$250. The biesmeyer fence will run you anther $250. So if you find on the cheaper side and do the mods you can still be within your budget.



I am not knocking the new saws. They perform well. With a little work you can do a lot better.



I would suggest looking up back copies of Fine Woodworking, Wood and other to see their comparisons on Saws if you still plan on going new.

 

[PHaller]

The absolute best material for a radial arm saw table is mdf, otherwise known as Medium density fiberboard. It's cheap and available at any good retail lumber yard. It is very heavy and very flat... just what you need. I would go with 1 inch but 3/4 will work too. When mounting the MDF to the saw use a framing square to be certain the saw blade is at 90 degrees to the table top. Once that's accomplished, replace the fence with a piece of hardwood, Maple or oak, and mount that to the top using the framing square to be certain the fence is 90 degrees to the blade crosscut path. That will get you started. Radial saws are a great deal harder to keep alligned then a table saw and will require various adjustments to the carrage and table to get everything square. The larger the carrage the better it will hold square. You can also cover the 1 inch table with 1/4 masonite to act as a replaceable cover for your new MDF top.



Bosch would be my first choise in a portabe jig saw. Without exception, my Bosch tools are a real pleasure to use. I have had several over the years and am more then satiafied but any good quality Hitachi, Makita, or Dewalt, Porter Cable , Milwaukee will do. Go to a dealer and hold them. There is nothing like seeing it in your hands and feeling the tools balace and weight. You know when the tool feels just right. NO, not THAT tool!!!



Ripping laminate flooring can be done with a circular saw and a clamp guide but in my experience it won't be that critical. Laminate flooring is a floating system and needs 3/16 clearance around all stationary objects. That gap is later covered with trim to conceal the gap and allow the floor to expand and contract seasonally. That's why I said earlier that you will need an undercut saw so the flooring can slip under existing trim and stiil move. The individual pieces are metric in size... about 7 1/2 by 36 in inches. A very managable size.

You will find that the portable jig saw with a very fine sharp blade will be doing most of your cuts with exception of crosscuts.



I said before that I don't like ripping on a radial saw... it is dangerous, IMHO, but if you must, keep fingers well clear and remember with a RAS the blade, if the stock gets fed too quickly, can ride up on top of the material and pull it and your hand into the blade. So keep your hands clear and use a push stick.

Are you planning to use the snap down or glue togeather system? I traditionally have used the glue system and just last month a snap down. I was impressed with it. It cut my installation time by 1/2 and looked great. Only time will tell if it holds up to spills.



Save up for a good quality small shop table saw like a Delta Unisaw or Powermatic model 66 on the used market. I used a Powermatic for a long time and like its feel and the fact that the blade tilts to the left. Delta finally got the message and now is also marketing a left tilting unisaw. Biesemeyer fences are really good too and I would never have a quality table saw without one. They were subsequently sold to Delta machinery and are now marketed under another name.



I'm warning you, if you go soft and buy a cheap table saw and you are serious about getting quality tools, in a year you will wish that you had not. That single tool is the heart and soul of any cabinet shop.

-Paul R. Haller-Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[KMC]

Thanks again Paul for your time. Today I picked up the Bosch jig saw and one of those aluminum clamp on guides. The table saw can wait for now. Will keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a used quality saw.



The masonite cover over the MDF is a clever idea. A countersunk screw in each corner should hold it in place.



The flooring we went with is Witex that is made in Germany. It is as big in Europe as Pergo is here and supposed to be better. It has up to a 30 year wear, fade, and water warranty and a lifetime structural warranty. It is the clic together type and I am excited to see how it all comes together. The comfort line which we got even has the fabric underlayment pad pre-attached and so you don't even have to worry about the separate step of puting that down first.



www.witexusa.com



Thanks again, Ken