TDR performance - Free-loaders

[Dl5treez]

There were several apache processes that were locked up loading up the server.

Friggin' apache processes. I don't know what they are but still wanna hate 'em just the same.

 

[fest3er]

... There seems to be a bug in one of the newer upgraded versions of either apache, php, freebsd, or the libraries. I am working on it with our freebsd guru as best I can. I hope to have it back fully functional soon. ...

Is it time to switch back to linux? Or migrate to Windows 2003?



Hah! I kill me!



N

 

[TDRadmin]

Update From Steve

I just talked to Steve on the phone. He's made some temporary modifications that should help relieve some of the speed issues.



This speed problem appears to be a hardware problem, and we are working on it. We will add new equipment as soon as we can identify the problem and optimal solution.



Thank you for your patience as we work through this temporary problem.



Thanks, guys.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[Yo Hoot]

Get way ahead of it... . don't improve when you have to, improve before you have to.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

There's some confusion here Yo Hoot. The amount of traffic on the servers right now is down from what it was this winter (this happens every year) when everything was fine (server loads stayed below 1. 5 at peak times with 2. 0 being fully loaded). The web server crashed 6 weeks ago and was repaired. An entire new drive array was installed because the entire array was bad. At that point the newest stable version of FreeBSD and all the modules we use was installed for security purposes. When it went back online I would see sluggish performance when the server load would get around . 7 which should be just loafing along (it's a dual cpu server and fully loaded is 2. 0). There are also some errors being generated from admin screens which all made me think we were dealing with a bug in one of the libraries, apache, php, or possible freeBSD itself. I have been working with our freeBSD guru to try to figure that out. I went out of town on my motorcycle on thursday and when I got to New York I saw these messages and looked at the server logs and the server loads were spiking up to 3. something regularly and up to 19 at times. I rebooted the web server because there were a bunch of processes locking up. I did all the work this weekend from my cell phone on a keyboard ~ 1. 5"x2". Friday morning I could see that the servers loads were still spiking to those kind of numbers even when there were almost no users on the server. The problems we've been having the last month or so have NOT been because there are too many people on the server. If the server was functioning properly there is PLENTY of horsepower there to deal with the traffic levels this time of year.



I began working on the hardware upgrade plans (which include a couple new servers and a load balancer) at the end of this winter when I could see that the loads this coming winter will be close to the limits of the existing equipment. The plan was and is to have this new additional hardware before the traffic starts climbing in the fall which is at least 5-6 months before it will be actually needed. We are way ahead of it - these problems are either hardware failures (what I now believe) or bugs in the operating system.



When I became aware that the problem was continuing on friday I shut down the web server and moved everything over to the database server. The entire site is running on 1 server right now (1/2 what it normally is) with loads well within the normal range. Response times will be a little slower than they would be with both servers up but it shouldn't be bad. I just got home 30 minutes ago from New York and will be working this week on getting the web server back up and running fully asap.



Thank you everyone for your patience.

 

[fest3er]

Get way ahead of it... . don't improve when you have to, improve before you have to.

That's what they did, lo those many years ago, when Steve spec'ed the servers they're currently using: dual-CPU, lots of RAM, RAID drives, etc. As I recall, they haven't needed much in the line of upgrades since, except for the failed RAID array. What are they, four years old? That's about end-of-life for a heavily-used computer that must be 99. 999% reliable.



Steve may be a little slow on the dragstrip , but he's no slouch when it comes to selecting reliable hardware (and reliable data centers)and dealing with software systems that can be infuriatingly buggy at times.



Sometimes computer hardware just gets old and fails before its time; you can plan, but you'll still be caught by surprise now and again. ... Huh. What'dya know? People and computers *do* have something in common.



N

 

[bmoeller]

It's been slow here for a couple of weeks, on cable.

Same here, as of late. Been working good today, though.

 

[TORQUE THIS]

(467 members and 1238 guests) right now... change the guests to "freeloaders"

 

[klenger]

Anyone remember dial-up BBSs. 1 user at a time at 1. 2k pits/sec and long diistance charges if it was out of town. Oh, the good old days.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

(467 members and 1238 guests) right now... change the guests to "freeloaders"

HMMmm the effects and changing perceptions, as time passes...



Seems I recall another scenario where "freeloaders" were quite legally, and with the full approval of the provider, taking advantage of a free service - and when one of the members here referred to them as "freeloaders", he was quite vigorously chastized, and nearly run out of town on a rail...



YUP, time sure alters perceptions, depending on which side of the issue you're on... :-laf :-laf

 

[JasonCzerak]

4 year old hardware "old" and "used up"... . Must be running Intel hardware



I have a few Sun servers that are over 10 years old here, nothing short of a disk drive every now and again fails in my data center, and I know I move 10 times more data a day then TDR does



Steve, PHP sucks, but to bad anything decent only runs on PHP. Also, just upgrading randomly is a bad thing in my datacenter. But I understand you can't always have a separate "test" box identical (for the most part) to your server.



BTW, Linux is a little more useful on SMP based hardware then FreeBSD. Benchmark the two and see what you get.

 

[Highfinance97]

(1,061 Freeloaders 303 members)





I asked robin a while back how come we cant have avitars on each of our posts and she said that we cant because people still have dial up (as do I)

Well i guess this is why





Michael

 

[TORQUE THIS]

Why can't non-paying visitors just get a "preview" like some other sites offer... :-laf Just dosen't seem fair to us that are paying for the resources...

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

FYI - non members have a number of restrictions on what they can do and see on the site so they are getting a "preview" so to say. First they can only view the entire thread of any posts that have been posted to in the last 5 days. Any posts older than that and they can only view the very first post on that thread (a "teaser" of sorts). Next they get google ads on every page which is helping to pay for coming services to the members that they won't have access to (video's is one that is coming soon). They also can't search the site - including "new new posts". There are a number of other things non members cannot do on the site as well.



Keep in mind that the #1 reason for the existence of the website from the point of view of the TDR is as a marketing arm to gain new members. All of those "freeloaders" are in fact potential members and are viewed as that by us. We are talking regularly about things that we can do to entice the guests to become members. Any ideas that you guys may have are welcome!



Remember too that none of the problems that the site has been having over the last month or so have been related to traffic levels since the traffic level is well below what it was during the winter.

 

[fest3er]

(467 members and 1238 guests) right now... change the guests to "freeloaders"

Like visitors everywhere, guests are welcome until they start to smell. Then it's time for them either to buy into the family or move on. The trick is to entice them into becoming members.



So, how about using a cookie to track when guests first arrive. Then traffic to them gets throttled back according to the following table:

[u]Length of Stay[/u]   [u]Throughput[/u]

   1 Week   350K bit

   2 Weeks  240K bit

   3 Weeks  176K bit

   4+ Weeks 115K bit

If throttling is too difficult, perhaps reducing the size of their socket buffer might achieve the same sort of thing. Hmmm. This might not encourage them to join; rather, it might only encourage them to move on.



Perhaps randomly nag them about joining. That is, randomly show a timed page that advises them of the benefits of joining TDR. Then, after 10 seconds, their browser 'forwards' them to the expected page. The longer they've been a guest, the more frequent the nagging gets.



Each nag page touts a different benefit of joining. And one page, with a display probability of 0. 0001, offers them a 10% discount to join. The % is also dependent on the length of their stay: the more they smell, the lower the discount *and* the lower the probability they will receive the offer.



"Harcourt Fenton Mudd, where have you been? <sniff> Have you been drinking again?" Nagging, Star Trek-style.

 

[Joe G.]

I have been referring people to threads on this web site. Some of them have showed up as members later. I didn't know that threads became unavailable to guests after a certain amout of time. Maybe that is why more of them that I referred to this site did not join.

 

[Jff24Gordn]

4 year old hardware "old" and "used up"... . Must be running Intel hardware ... ...

I am pretty sure its a pair of AMD 1. 2 Athlon MP's.

 

[CSnyder]

Keep in mind that the #1 reason for the existence of the website from the point of view of the TDR is as a marketing arm to gain new members. All of those "freeloaders" are in fact potential members and are viewed as that by us. We are talking regularly about things that we can do to entice the guests to become members. Any ideas that you guys may have are welcome!



Steve, How about enticing them with a few pictures of women in bikinis and for the lady viewers a picture of a guy in a swimsuit... . hell Ill even volunteer for the model position... haha. Any man in his right mind who drives a Cummins likes to see women in bikinis so if you had a picture like this on the homepage they would think it only gets better by becoming a member. Maybe you could add a fake forum named naked women photos that is accessible only to members. That would gain us about 10,000 new members overnight and free up the freeloader aspects. I'll admit I was a loafer for 3 monthes before joining but a pic of a woman in a bikini would have got me to sign on the dotted line much faster. I have a good photo of me and some other members with a group of Hooters girls I would donate for the cause. Maybe use a caption like "Want to become part of the action?"



Another idea would be to sell out more advertising like Google to nonmember viewing and allow pop-ups with the occasional "join now to avoid all the advertising and pop-ups". I think either of my ideas would work. Best of luck with the new system install Steve!



Chris

 

[Nyoest]

(1,061 Freeloaders 303 members)


I asked robin a while back how come we cant have avitars on each of our posts and she said that we cant because people still have dial up (as do I)
Well i guess this is why


Michael

Yes, but they now have the TDR lite format. If the avatars are too much couldn't the dial uppers use that?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Yes, but they now have the TDR lite format. If the avatars are too much couldn't the dial uppers use that?

I'd have to go check, but I thought the turning OFF avitars was already an available option for ALL users.



If not, and it was an issue for slower services, it certainly COULD be an option...



It sometimes seems that in the enthusiastic rush to please and attract new Member$ ($$$$$$), the wishes or best interests of the existing ones sorta get sacrificed, and left in the dust...