TDR Rag...10.5V = no start?

[steved]

OK, I've been having an intermittent bucking start... think I figured out why. I read the TDR rag last night and they made the statement that anything below 10. 5V is a no start for a CRD.



I turned on my GPS this AM (unfortunately, after the grid heaters cycled) and hit the starter... voltage dropped to just around 10. 5V. Which at 30*F, the voltage should not have dropped that far, that fast, which leads me to believe I have a battery with a bad cell that is probably causing my hard/bucking start issue. And to add, voltage started around 12. 5Vs, and almost instantly dropped to 10. 5V... it didn't slowly drop, it fell! The starter still spins fairly normal...



So short of actually getting the batteries tested, this is probably my issue. I'm going to get a multimeter out tonight and see what happens in the AM... probably going to need new batteries. Last truck I had, my 99, got traded at 200k with original batteries (and those had a lot of abuse)... these are what, a little shy of 4 years old with 142k and bad??



steved

 

[JFaughn]

A load test will tell all , if you take the batt caps off , that will tell [ bubbles ] what cell is bad .

 

[steved]

I found Deka's for $99/each locally... 1040CA @ 32*F, 880CCA @ 0*F.

I don't have access to a load tester, and none of the shops around here understand that they need to test each battery separately (already been down that road)...

steved

 

[steved]

Well, confirmed that the voltage is dropping at the batteries this AM... started at just above 12V, dropped to under 11V with the grid heaters, and dropped to below 10. 5V with the starter.



To me this indicates a bad battery, that is holding a surface charge that quickly dissipates under load. Voltage should not drop like a rock, even when subjected to the loads generated by the grid heaters. It should be a gradual drop...



So it looks like its time for new batteries... at $100/each...



steved

 

[JFaughn]

If a shop does not have a load tester [ just about the #1 diagnostic tool any shop should have ] run away .
Your description close to a load test , a full load test should look at battery , alt , starter & connections , with all those in good shape you will get max life out of all components , I sold Interstate batteries for 20 yrs , no longer have a shop so do not know about prices , but I would guess 2 for about $150 .

 

[steved]

All the shops have them, but none are willing to test each battery separately (for what ever reason).

I get a charging voltage of between 13. 9 and 14. 4, depending on temperature.

steved

 

[steved]

Well, I just had the batteries tested... hooked together, with a 300A load applied would draw BOTH of them to under 10V almost instantly.



He told me that under "normal" circumstances that they were marginally acceptable at best... if it was any other season than winter (which really hasn't gotten to us yet), he would use them. But since winter is coming, he recommended replacing them. Keep in mind I told the guy BEFORE they were tested that I wasn't buying batteries from him (Interstate Dealer), so he had nothing to gain.



So I just installed two new Deka 880CCA, 1040CA batteries direct from the factory. Took about an hour... I have gobs of extra wiring under there for miscellaneous stuff. These batteries had 12. 6V right from factory... only dropped them to 12. 4V with the grid heaters... and down to 11. 8V starting... almost a full volt difference across the board.



Well, it spins over now... I thought my truck sounds slow when compared to the company's 2006, but night and day difference with new batteries! It also starts a whole lot sooner... my "long" start is gone... we'll drive it a couple weeks before saying it cured my bucking start.



steved

 

[05mxdiesel]

I gotta agree steve the latest tdr magazine provided a weath of info. If I remember right they said anything under 12. 0 was a dead battery (no load). I haven't checked yet but does the volt meter read correctly compared to a multi meter?

 

[Motorhead]

I would hardly call the TDR magazine a "rag"!
A "RAG" is what you see at the check stand at the grocery store that supposedly "Tells all" about those scumbags in Hollywierd.
My $0. 02

 

[steved]

I haven't checked yet but does the volt meter read correctly compared to a multi meter?

Yes, voltmeter reads proportionally correct (it is a real guage, as is the temperature), but with only a 14V reference (for the mid scale), you really can't tell whats going on.



My GPS has the option to read voltage (both of its internal batteries and external power sources) down to the hundredths. So I can conveniently see what's going on (I have ALL my accessories through a direct hookup to the battery).



One thing that I will note... remember the 1st and second gens cycling of the grid heaters on and off, and how you could see it in the guage? Notice how a third gen seems to "drop" the alternator out until the grid heaters quit cycling? Well, the cycling still happens (with the alternator playing catch-up) in the 3rd gens, just like the older trucks... they just make the guage do funky things. So the reading might actually be generated by the ECM, just like the oil pressure...



steved

 

[steved]

I would hardly call the TDR magazine a "rag"!

A "RAG" is what you see at the check stand at the grocery store that supposedly "Tells all" about those scumbags in Hollywierd.

My $0. 02

Rag to me is any formal publication (i. e. magazine) that isn't a book.



steved

 

[rbattelle]

Notice how a third gen seems to "drop" the alternator out until the grid heaters quit cycling? Well, the cycling still happens (with the alternator playing catch-up) in the 3rd gens, just like the older trucks... they just make the guage do funky things. So the reading might actually be generated by the ECM, just like the oil pressure...

The volt meter reading is generated by the ECM, but unlike the oil pressure the ECM actually displays the truth. Except during grid heater use, of course.



BTW, apparently in 2006 they got rid of the voltmeter suppression during heater operation, so they bounce like a 2nd gen does.



Ryan

 

[steved]

OK, got to drive this some this AM (53 miles to work)...



What gets reset with the batteries disconnected??? Keep in mind this is the first time in 142k miles the batteries were ever disconnected for anything.



I had a noticeable decrease in smoke (smoke in this truck is a gray haze under heavy throttle)... I actually didn't see ANY smoke this AM... WOOHOO!



I am wondering if this would this have reset the ECM for that bare wire I experienced???



steved

 

[Cattletrkr]

Dad's '03 seemed to straighten out a little after unhooking the batteries and "resetting" things. My '04. 5 doesn't seem to be affected at all.

Did you still have the "green eyes" with bad batteries. Mine doesn't start so good anymore. -5*F and it took a couple minutes to get it fired up w/o being plugged in.

Whatcha got against Interstate?

 

[steved]

Dad's '03 seemed to straighten out a little after unhooking the batteries and "resetting" things. My '04. 5 doesn't seem to be affected at all.



Did you still have the "green eyes" with bad batteries. Mine doesn't start so good anymore. -5*F and it took a couple minutes to get it fired up w/o being plugged in.



Whatcha got against Interstate?

The green eyes really don't mean anything... unless THAT cell goes bad, you can have shot batteries and a green eye...



Interstate was a good battery, at one point... I sold them, and used them, when I was at the station. But they have went downhill IMO, I have been left sitting with year old Interstates taht had no reason for going bad. I like Deka... made in the USA, and it supports the neighbor who works there!



steved

 

[Cattletrkr]

A quick search just told me the nearest Deka dealer is in IL... 381 miles away. Nuts.

 

[steved]

Just as an update, might have been chasing nothing... lost an injector last night.

Not saying the batteries weren't part of the problem, but I now wonder how long the injector has been bad, and whether it was causing a lot of the problems I was experiencing...

steved

 

[Cattletrkr]

Would that qualify as "quirky"?

 

[steved]

Depends if the injectors cure the problem...



steved

 

[Cattletrkr]

I think the first time I had the dealer do an injector kill test was about 130K back. It's been driving me nuts ever since. Run 'er hard and don't look back.