Thank you Kent Kroeker.... DW is really gone.

[TexBamBam]

From what I understand, it has to do with the arc the bar swings from the attach points at the frame. I don't know enough about the interactions to really explain it. I will tell you that it is the only change I have made and it made THE difference.

I wonder if you just got longer bolts if that would work too... on the cheep?

 

[Yo Hoot]

On the 3rd gen they have special ball jointed links at the axle. If you want to go cheap make spacers out of square tubing but be sure you use something heavy enough so it doesn't loosen from compression. I think solid blocks are best. You could make some out of solid aluminum square stock.

 

[Duck]

For a hundred bucks I'm in. Just ordered a set from Greg at DRC.

That was my reasoning for ordering them today also. If $100 can make it feel more solid over the bumps and maybe even put the DW scare out of my head, it's a no-brainer for me.

I've spent more on less :-laf

 

[AndyMan]

I had DW yesterday on the way home... 2nd time in three weeks. I am calling Kent this morning. I'm ready to spend what I have to so DW never occours again. If you've never had it (Death Wobble), thank your lucky stars...

 

[kentkroeker]

Gents,



I think Justin hit the nail on the head.



If you're getting DW, it could be from a lot of different things - tires, improper caster, worn or defective steering components, loose track bar, avulsed control arm bushings etc. When used on "leveled" trucks, the billet drop block - or home-made spacers (make them so they drop the rotating point 1. 25" - 1. 5" - and make them strong) - will reduce cross-lateral deflection and decrease the likelihood of the front end lighting off.



Additionally, I think that DW is somewhat subjective; there are varying degrees of uncontrolled-feeling events. Certain staggered bumps, especially rolling or undulating bumps, when taken at high speed can cause a leveled truck with no worn or bad parts to feel pretty weird. This uncontrolled feeling can be interpreted as DW, but I think real Death Wobble is when the truck just goes berserk and makes your passengers soil themselves.



The new Power Wagon, a truck that essentially has DC's version our kit on it, uses a very trick anti-sway bar. The rotating point is the same as your trucks, but the bar bend is different to lower the effective angle, and it has special end links with bearings on each side. The upper part of the end link is aligned vertically, not horizontally IOT reduce stress when fully drooped out. It also has a disconnect feature that permits greater independent articulation when crawling around over rough terran. Neat truck. Point being that the anti-sway bar is an often-neglected, but very important piece of suspension.



Over and Out,



Kent Kroeker

 

[AndyMan]

Very useful information Kent. I called you this A. M. , evidently you guys are out testing. Rock on... I ended up calling Greg, talked to him for almost an hour. Heck'uva guy (although a little hopped up on the java juice ). I got some great info from him. My DW was observed by another driver I was "Racing" at the time, and from her description, Greg seems to agree it was the full blown DW. I'm glad there's nothing worse to expect, that was a "Life Changing Event" for sure.



At any rate, first steps are to adjust caster, inspect tie-rod ends, bushings and trackbar. Next step is figure out what susp components to replace. I definately need shocks, and would like the KORE Leveling kit at a minimum (gotta scrape up pennies)... not to cure DW, but because I am tired of the "sledgehammer" ride the truck has with the revtek spacers and worn out stock shocks (55k miles).



Thanks again, you guys are the best.

Andy

 

[DHamlin]

I have a question for someone who might know about the causes of the death wobble for unlifted trucks.

The first time I had the DW I thought the world was comming to and end :--) . I was going 50 mph and it didnt stop untill about 15mph or so. I was completely shocked to find everything still on the truck when I stopped. I was even more surprised to find that nothing seemed wrong! I have noticed with my truck it was started when a single, sharp, small bump was encountered. The second time it happened was 6 months later! I had been driving the truck consistently 10,000 or so. The second time I tried braking or accelerating to maybe try to change the frequency, didnt help. After the 2nd time, it happened 3 days later. This time I was holding the wheel for dear life but since I had "experience" by this time I tried looking out the window at the drivers side tire. Sure I got wacked into the top of the door a few times but I got to see what happened. The tire was going left to right about 3 inches a side.

Now , I thought, "I got you ,you Mother F@#%^!" I again looked in to the front end to find no problematic parts. When I first got the truck I had replaced ball joints universals and axle seals, by this time I also had Lukes link installed.

I called the dealer and he said he didnt know what it was,maybe for legal reasons. But he said to look at the track bar and stabilizer.

From then I replaced the stabilizer, some new ball joints AGAIN, tightened the Lukes link, put a new hub/ rotor assembly,shocks. I have not had the problem for 8 months.

However when I go over stutter bumps at speed that eery feeling comes back. will changing the geometry of the stabilizer help non- lifted trucks?

BTW

For people who wonder if they have DW... ... you dont . You will know without a doubt when it finds your truck, IT IS VIOLENT.

What is the best way to stabilize a non-lifted truck?

 

[yycguy]

For people who wonder if they have DW... ... you dint . You will know without a doubt when it finds your truck, IT IS VIOLENT.

What is the best way to stabilize a non-lifted truck?

I echo that statement, if you get DW you certainly now it. It is something you care not to see again, and I got it 4 times in 1 week!



I since had my ball joints changed and the tie rod end to the pitman arm, also a lot of positive caster dialed in. For now my DW is gone but I am concerned that it may come back with some miles on the new Ball joints.

The Kore Stabilizer drop bar blocks are something that I am thinking about getting, I am willing to spend to insure this does NOT happen again.

 

[Jeff_K]

I have been chasing a bad death wobble since putting my lift on. I took it to the dealer and they said the ball joints were still good, balanced and rotated the tires, checked and rechecked all steering links, tie rods, track bar, etc. and everything was tight. Last night I decided to try putting the stock steering stabilizer back on, and now the death wobble is GONE!! I guess the ProComp Steering Stabilzer was the problem all along!

 

[NVR FNSH]

When used on "leveled" trucks, the billet drop block - or home-made spacers (make them so they drop the rotating point 1. 25" - 1. 5" - and make them strong) - will reduce cross-lateral deflection and decrease the likelihood of the front end lighting off.

Kent,

Can you explain what you mean by cross-lateral deflection? The sway-bar is not designed to control lateral loading - the mounting system does not provide any method of reacting to a lateral load (beyond the friction associated with the rubber bushings) unless the sway-bar is bound up.



Brian

 

[JSellers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentkroeker

When used on "leveled" trucks, the billet drop block - or home-made spacers (make them so they drop the rotating point 1. 25" - 1. 5" - and make them strong) - will reduce cross-lateral deflection and decrease the likelihood of the front end lighting off.



And by NVR FNSH:

Kent,

Can you explain what you mean by cross-lateral deflection? The sway-bar is not designed to control lateral loading - the mounting system does not provide any method of reacting to a lateral load (beyond the friction associated with the rubber bushings) unless the sway-bar is bound up.



Brian





Here's my guess at what Kent meant - "deflection" may be reference to the suspension travel. The sway bar transfers suspension deflection from one side of the axle to the other. If you hit a bump/pothole with only one wheel, the sway bar tries to make the other end of the axle move as well. Especially if you have the bar end bushings tightened well, or have polyurethane bushings installed.



This function of the sway bar is what keeps roll under control. But, if your truck has tendencies for the DW - thankfully, I don't think mine does (at least I haven't experienced it) - the sway bar can produce a bit of "roll oscillation" in the front axle. Kent referred to this as "lighting off the DW".



I've sensed this when hitting bumps and holes with one wheel only, or when in a bumpy turn, especially since I have the sway bar end bushings over tightened a bit. Polyurethane replacement bushings will accentuate this even more. That's why off-road guys like to disconnect the sway bar when they're running hard. It lets each side of the axle move independently, without the "cross-lateral deflection".



How'd I do, Kent?

John

 

[Yo Hoot]

If you think about it, the stabilizer bar is a torsion bar... a spring. When one side of the suspension geta a good jar, it get's transferred to the opposite side, albiet delayed. This delay could be one of the "inducers" of DW.

 

[Tim]

I have been chasing a bad death wobble since putting my lift on. I took it to the dealer and they said the ball joints were still good, balanced and rotated the tires, checked and rechecked all steering links, tie rods, track bar, etc. and everything was tight. Last night I decided to try putting the stock steering stabilizer back on, and now the death wobble is GONE!! I guess the ProComp Steering Stabilzer was the problem all along!

Nope. You still need a front end alignment, just the ProCrap wasn't good enough to hide it. The stock stabilizer will hide it for you. Doesn't change the fact that you don't have enough caster, just hides it better. :-laf



If you guys will excuse me, I'm going to go compromise the integrity of my sway bar's mounting points. I'm sure it will solve all my problems.

 

[Yo Hoot]

If you guys will excuse me, I'm going to go compromise the integrity of my sway bar's mounting points. I'm sure it will solve all my problems.

It just so happened to solve mine. I never said it was a cure all for all situations.



As far as compromising the mounting points... bull. You must not have looked at the picture. Remember, the brackets themselves are stamped sheetmetal encapsulating a rubber bushing. Using solid blocks as mounting risers in no way compromises the assy.

 

[Jeff_K]

Nope. You still need a front end alignment, just the ProCrap wasn't good enough to hide it. The stock stabilizer will hide it for you. Doesn't change the fact that you don't have enough caster, just hides it better...

The truck was aligned, didn't fix a thing. Added more caster (positive) and made the DW worse. The ProCrap steering stabilizer seems to have a problem with is now that I can play with it on the bench. The stock one still works great. A couple 4x4 shops here in town have had the same problem with other stabilizers and put a stock one back on to correct the problem.

 

[AndyMan]

I took my truck to a trusted alignment shop searching for the DW cure... They agreed that too much positive caster would not stop the DW. They checked everything under the frontend (ball joints, tie rod ends, etc) and found it all to be in spec. He said they took "one and a half rotations out of the steering"? I didn't get that, but whatever. They also installed a Fabtech dual steering stabilizer (that I didn't ask for or authorize). Got Bilsteins on the way, front end still dribbles after a bump, but no DW again yet.

 

[Razkul99]

Sarcasm...

If you guys will excuse me, I'm going to go compromise the integrity of my sway bar's mounting points. I'm sure it will solve all my problems.

Criticism...

It's a shame you spent all that money for suspension and bought Eagle Alloy wheels. Everything looks good but over time the look of those wheels will surely fade, and taking off steel or forged aluminum to put cast aluminum wheels on a heavy duty truck was a step backwards in my opinion.

Tim, is it sarcasm or criticism that is your strong point? Maybe I am way off here, but I thought the goal was to help folks out and provide possible solutions to problems.

 

[RankRam]

Razkul99 I agree with you about Tim as do alot of others on the TDR.



I look at it this way, when Tim posts more than 100 times a month you are bound to ruffle a few feathers. LOL

 

[AndyMan]

Death wobble again this morning. It's every day now, and each time is worse than the last. This time, it actually caused me to leave the roadway. I'm starting to think that if the truck DW's me into a bridge abutment, I'd be better off.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Death wobble again this morning. It's every day now, and each time is worse than the last. This time, it actually caused me to leave the roadway. I'm starting to think that if the truck DW's me into a bridge abutment, I'd be better off.

Put the stab bar drop blocks on it. I also had the Revtek spacers AND wobble.

The blocks did the trick for lifted fronts. At least it did for me.



For $110 bucks it's worth it don't ya think?