2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission That Dreaded 2nd Gen steering !

[pfmoale]

No doubt, there has been postings on the 2nd Gen steering. Haven't seen any postings, as of now. Have I missed it ?
2001 CTD, Quad Cab, LB, 4WD, auto trans. I did raise the front end, about 2.5 or 3", so truck would be level. Used Rancho products.
Current mileage : 108,000.
About 4,000 miles ago replaced :
All 4 shocks, with Billstine's
New upgraded Borgensen steering shaft
New track bar
New EMF ball joints
After all that, it was taken for alignment.
Spent the money for parts, and install, and it didn't feel any better than when I took it there !!!
Have been viewing You Tube videos until the cows come home, and have read mixed reviews / comments on each one.
At this point in time, price is NOT the option. The option is to install the best products available, to get it back to being a joy to drive.
CONSTANTLY correcting the steering wheel. Towing a 7,000 pound bumper pull travel trailer, is NOT having a very good time on the road !
I did feel the "Slop" on the steering shaft, where it enters into the firewall. A fellow on Y.T. suggested changing out to a better corrected, Delron bushing, that is better than the OEM one.
I personally think the steering box is bad. Getting mixed comments between a Red Head, and a PCS box. Reading that the PCS is the better box. New unit, NOT "Re-manufactured."
Currently not absolutely sure if I have a Y or T front steering arms.
Now, after the changing out of the above items, the actual steering wheel is now 90 degrees from horizontal, where it's supposed to be.
Quality parts replacement is the only option. I don't have $100,000 for a new one, nor do I want a new one.
Any and all comments are greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time.

Peter Moale
Lake Almanor, CA
N.E. Corner of "Calastupidfornia"
(We call it the State of Jefferson)

 

[Ozymandias]

Get the 6-bolt Box for it and forget about all the inferior other ones.

https://www.pscmotorsports.com/psc-sg851-1994-2002-dodge-2500-3500-xd-steering-gear.html

Did you do the T-steering conversion already?

Aligned to Thuren specs?

 

[petersonj]

New upgraded Borgensen steering shaft

In my opinion, this steering shaft is not an upgrade. In fact, on my truck it caused steering problems similar to yours that took me over 25,000 miles of driving to figure it out. The problem was in the design of the telescopic part of the steering shaft (sometimes called the slip joint). The tension from the style of spring used in the slip joint caused so much friction that it didn't allow for axial movement of the two halves of the steering shaft.

The photo below shows the tension spring used in the slip yoke. I even used a press to reduce the arc of the spring. It made no difference. I removed the spring and reassembled the shafts. Much better performance; however, after driving with that shaft for over 170,000 miles, I replaced it with a Dorman steering shaft (built like the OEM shaft). Here is what I wrote in my maintenance records at the time of replacement:

"Replaced Borgeson steering shaft (still operational). This shaft is poorly designed with 10 set screw / jam nuts to hold parts together, which makes it a high maintenance item. Set screws are difficult to inspect or to tighten after the installation of steering shaft. The slip joint offers too much friction and has to be disassembled to grease. After driving a few thousand miles, the slip joint gets sticky and affects steering performance and needs to be cleaned and re-greased - not a simple task. I also feel that set screw type clamping pulls the clamped components off-center, which is felt in the steering wheel.

The Dorman replacement steering shaft appears to be of very good quality. Only two OEM style clamps for installation (keeps components centered) which makes for very easy installation / removal and is virtually maintenance free. The rag type joint removes vibrations transmitted from the road. This shaft is quiet and very smooth - far better than the Borgeson steering shaft."

I have since logged 18,000 miles on the Dorman steering shaft and it is still smooth and quiet. I spent $270 on the Borgeson shaft and $127 on the Dorman shaft. Sometimes I learn the hard way.

From what I am understanding, it sounds like you had someone else install all of the parts. The steering shaft may not be aligned to the steering box input shaft correctly. There are no simple indexes on the Borgeson steering shaft to properly align the steering shaft splines onto the steering gear box splines. The steering wheel must be centered and the front wheels must be pointed straight ahead before making the connection - not an easy task.

It is not necessary to spend a lot of money to make these trucks steer well, even with the Y type steering linkage that is on my truck. One my best improvements was to set caster at 4 1/2 degrees. Another was replacing the steering gear box with a NEW Borgeson unit about 150,000 miles ago at which time I also removed the steering brace. The truck is nearing 400,000 miles and drives far better in the last 150,000 miles than it did when it was new. I enjoy driving truck empty or towing heavily loaded (20,000 lbs combined weight).

- John

 

[GSP7]

I gotz a Redhead box on my '99 good box several years ago, tight as hell. Great box.

I have the HD T one piece tie rod. (no "Y" tie rod crap. ) Truck came with factory heavy duty 1 ton set up and dual anti sway bars

 

[Timd32]

Never dug into the steering stuff, looking at the picture Ozy posted what is the largest performance difference between the T and Y.

The top one does not show a stabilizer, does it use one?

I can see the tweaks in the connection points and angle adjustments, they are not drastically different, but they are not the same either.

 

[NIsaacs]

Never dug into the steering stuff, looking at the picture Ozy posted what is the largest performance difference between the T and Y.

The top one does not show a stabilizer, does it use one?

I can see the tweaks in the connection points and angle adjustments, they are not drastically different, but they are not the same either.

I can't explain it very well but there are articles out there about it. Before I did mine, I read several articles but can't remember much now. I did have to use the '12 ram damper. The '01 won't work.

Some info here when I did mine.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...tenance-on-the-01.259915/page-16#post-2687017

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...tenance-on-the-01.259915/page-17#post-2687096

 

[Chief USA]

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/mopr-steering-linkage-upgrade-t-style-52122362/steering-linkage


NIsaacs, which differential cover did you use? I have the Mag Hytech front differential cover and would like to keep it. Is there any reasonable modification that can be done to use the Mag Hytech differential cover with this front steering linkage upgrade?

 

[NIsaacs]

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/mopr-steering-linkage-upgrade-t-style-52122362/steering-linkage


NIsaacs, which differential cover did you use? I have the Mag Hytech front differential cover and would like to keep it. Is there any reasonable modification that can be done to use the Mag Hytech differential cover with this front steering linkage upgrade?

Mine is oem. What Geno's says.

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/MH-DA60/differential-covers

 

[LorenStrodtman]

I installed the Delron bushing I believe you reference and it was a nice improvement. My truck has over 360k miles, and before I bought it (@ 275k or so) it had 35" tires and also had a snow plow on it, so all kinds of things were worn out. I went to the t-style and much prefer it, especiallyfor setting the toe; those who need off-road articulation may not.

The lift isn't helping you, but if you love the look it may be time for longer, adjustable aftermarket control arms.

 

[LorenStrodtman]

Another was replacing the steering gear box with a NEW Borgeson unit

I may finally be in the market for a power steering gear and cannot locate a model number for a Borgeson version. Do you happen to know which model or where you bought it? The current Borgeson website and catalog show boxes for 2003 to 2019, but not for 2nd gens. There is a power steering pump and a hose kit, but no gearbox.

Edit: I see now I think you may have installed the 800120 box, but I'm not certain it's available any longer. I'll keep looking.

 

[petersonj]

I see now I think you may have installed the 800120 box,

Yes, this is the steering gearbox that I installed - new not re-manufactured. I does appear that it is no longer available.

I have logged 100,000 miles on the Borgeson 800120 steering gearbox. It is still performing very well and has no leaks. If I have to replace it again, I would consider the PSC-SG851 steering gearbox.

- John

 

[LorenStrodtman]

If I have to replace it again

If you ever need to replace it, you may be in luck. It seems that the Borgeson was a Delphi 680, and Geno's has them (rebuilt) for less than half the price of the PSC gearbox. I do like that with the PSC I wouldn't have to grind on the input shaft to use my factory steering shaft, but for $450 I can handle a little grinding!

 

[JMcCoy]

I have the Borgenson box and Synergy steering kit. Absolutely awesome!

GET RID OF THE BORGENSON STEERING SHAFT!!!!
it is an absolute PIECE OF I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER and could KILL you and your family!
Super Dangerous! The crappy set screws loosen up and fall off. There are many posts out there on it, so I checked mine. Mine was about to fall off! There is not enough loc-tite in the world to fix the problem.
I replaced it with the new Dorman shaft, which is a HUGE upgrade to both the owm and Borgenson.
You've been warned!

 

[Joe Mc]

I installed the PSC box on mine years back. A tight fit between frame and block due to the box having larger bearings. One of the best improvements to steering I did along with tubular control arms and 3rd gen trackbar conversion.

 

[Ozymandias]

I have the Borgenson box and Synergy steering kit. Absolutely awesome!

GET RID OF THE BORGENSON STEERING SHAFT!!!!
it is an absolute PIECE OF **** and could KILL you and your family!
Super Dangerous! The crappy set screws loosen up and fall off. There are many posts out there on it, so I checked mine. Mine was about to fall off! There is not enough loc-tite in the world to fix the problem.
I replaced it with the new Dorman shaft, which is a HUGE upgrade to both the owm and Borgenson.
You've been warned!

If that thing would be an OEM piece we'd have a recall already for safety issues.

 

[JMcCoy]

Exactly!

 

[LorenStrodtman]

Dorman 425-264 seems to be the part number for the 2nd Gen steering shaft. 360k miles has worn out the u-joint at the gearbox and lots of slop at the slip joint, but only at the "as installed" length - tight when shortened or lengthened!

 

[garylmoore]

I am getting a clunk that you can feel thru the steering column on stops and starts. It has been there since the truck was purchased at 180k miles. 267k on the clock now and it has not seemed to have changed much. I'm guessing that is my steering box? Suspension has been rebuilt, steering box is about the only thing that i have not changed on this truck.

 

[Ozymandias]

I am getting a clunk that you can feel thru the steering column on stops and starts. It has been there since the truck was purchased at 180k miles. 267k on the clock now and it has not seemed to have changed much. I'm guessing that is my steering box? Suspension has been rebuilt, steering box is about the only thing that i have not changed on this truck.

Brake pads moving can give a nice clunk into the steering shaft too.

 

[garylmoore]

Brake pads moving can give a nice clunk into the steering shaft too.

This clunk has been going on since the truck purchase. I have changed pads, calipers , rotors, ball joints and wheel bearings since then.
It's for sure a momentum thing. The sound changing slightly with the speed of start and stop and seems to only happen when the truck is moving in a straight line.
It's actually a double thump, like something moving forward due to slop, then returning to the original position at full stop.
Thanks for the comment!