The cost of service...RANT...

[Huskerman]

Just for figures sake, the local dealership here charges 334+tax It all depends on what the market will bear!

EXACTLY. Couldn't agree more.

 

[rbattelle]

There are plenty of people who blow money on anything they want. A lot of it isn't even neccessary stuff. Just "toys". Just want to get cheap on stuff they "need". It is all a matter of priorities, I think. Just "where" and what they "want" to spend the money on is the real problem.

I think that's pretty insightful. I, for example, hardly spend any money at all on clothing. If I get 1 new pack of underwear in 2 years that's a lot. I tend to buy a few high quality items, then wear them until they fall off me (most of my underwear have numerous holes). I buy them on sale to save money. Even better, I get the clothes for free at local foot races! As I type this I'm wearing a long sleeve tee-shirt from a foot race on October 31, 1999. It's shrunk and doesn't really fit (I look like an idiot). It's still got several years of good use in it!



If this were a textile forum, it would be easy to argue that people like me destroyed the American textile industry because we didn't buy enough clothing.



And don't get me started on appliances! I'll fix/repair/hack together/duct tape my appliances until they're completely without any hope of service whatsoever. I've been living on my own for 9 years now (yes, I'm young) and I've never purchased a new washer or dryer, dishwasher, or refrigerator. Stuff breaks, I fix it. People like me, it could be argued, destroyed (or are destroying) the American appliance industry.



My friends used to constantly throw things away when they broke and buy a new one. When I started taking the old broken things from them and repairing them, they stopped doing this. Now when something breaks they ask me to fix it. I have about a 70% success rate. So now I'm spreading my destruction of the American manufacturing sector to people around me!



I hate paying $30 for a pair of pants, but I'll be happy as a pig in slop to shell out $200 on a top-of-the-line US-made reciprocating saw (when I could buy one at HF for $20).



As for the IT industry, I have the same attitude. I buy my own parts, build my own computer, and service it myself. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've ever called technical support, and usually it's just to warranty a part that broke. You may blame the destruction of the American IT corps on people like me.



I think I'm like this because when I was a kid, if it broke I wasn't getting a new one. So now, if something breaks my first reaction is "fix it". "Buy a new one" falls somewhere below "do without".



Ryan

 

[DieselTweaker]

My best come back to people who dicker over labor rates ect. at the shops I have worked for is.



I simply ask them "Do you work for free?" and upon them thinking about it for a few seconds and saying "NO". I then ask them "Then why do you expect me to?"



I have not had a reply to that in many years of using that line for those people.

You must be a flat rate tech... And I agree!



Zach

 

[Huskerman]

As for the IT industry, I have the same attitude. I buy my own parts, build my own computer, and service it myself. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've ever called technical support, and usually it's just to warranty a part that broke. You may blame the destruction of the American IT corps on people like me.

Not at all bud! I think it's great when folks choose to do for themselves! If you can and you want to, go for it! It's what I have said all along.



I apologize to the good folks who have kept up with this thread. My inability to articulate what I am trying to say has been my own worst enemy.



It was never meant to rant on folks who choose to do for themselves. I realize that it came across that way and that's my bad.



I really, really want to try one more time but my wife says that all I ever do is dig the hole deeper so I will move on.



Huskerman

 

[rbattelle]

It was never meant to rant on folks who choose to do for themselves. I realize that it came across that way and that's my bad.

I don't think you were ranting on folks who do things themselves! BMoeller's comment just got me to thinkin', and once that happens... look out! It simply occurred to me that in a way (albeit a small way), choosing not to consume goods and services "hurts" the economy a little. At least, that's the argument I'm going to make to my wife when I tell her about the vertical mill I want!



Actually, this "argument" is among the more civilized I've seen around here.



Now if you'll excuse me I've got to sew up some holes in my underpants.



Ryan

 

[TheBigSgt]

Not at all bud! I think it's great when folks choose to do for themselves! If you can and you want to, go for it! It's what I have said all along.



I apologize to the good folks who have kept up with this thread. My inability to articulate what I am trying to say has been my own worst enemy.



It was never meant to rant on folks who choose to do for themselves. I realize that it came across that way and that's my bad.



I really, really want to try one more time but my wife says that all I ever do is dig the hole deeper so I will move on.



Huskerman

Just good fun! I like to through a spark out there from time to time. Keeps me thinking!

 

[MCummings]

Now if you'll excuse me I've got to sew up some holes in my underpants.

TMI Ryan, TMI...





Merrick

 

[BILLVO]

You must be a flat rate tech... And I agree!



Zach

No flat rate worker here. never have never will. just paid by the hour. My thought on flat rate techs is the ones who work in a big dealership are working extremely fast usually as parts changers to beat flat rate and subpar quality work a lot of time because the dealer will not warranty a lot of stuff after it leaves the shop so the tech is off the hook. The best flat rate techs I know work in small shops and do high quality work. if they don't they will not have a job for long.



This is just my opinion from what I see in some shops around here. Don't get me wrong there are dang excellent techs at dealers also.



The stuff I work on is nearly impossible to try to flat rate. Mine,ag,construction equipment.



A mechanic is one who tries to fix the symptoms instead of the problem,usually by changing parts.



A technician looks at the symptoms and looks at what can cause that. "The whole picture"and fixes the root cause by troubleshooting. Not parts changing until problem goes away.

 

[daytripper63]

I have read all the post and well... I only have one thing to say

I think everyone should be required to start and run a business after graduating from H. S. or College etc. and I believe that would change the views/beliefs of all. well almost all, there will always be the unreasonable few but they would most likely be the ones whos Businesses failed

 

[bmoeller]

It was never meant to rant on folks who choose to do for themselves.

Didn't come across that way to me.



Ryan-



I'm alot like you, from the sounds of it. Not really capable of building my own computer, though. Reckon I could with some help, but not on my own.



I bought a house last fall, and the only thing I really needed to buy new, was a stove. The used fridge was given to me, just had to go pick it up. Washer and dryer came with the house, and probably almost as old as me. Still work like new. No sqeeks, either.



Virtually ALL of my furniture is from friends or family who got new stuff over the years. All in good shape. Never bought a thing there.



Like to get my moneys worth out of my clothes, too. No sewing the tighty-whities, though. Usually to thin to do any good. Nice and soft, though. :-laf Don't buy cheap clothes, just quality stuff that will last. Like my Wranglers.



I can count on one hand how much work I've ever had to farm out on anything. When I do, it's usually because the tools cost more than to have the work done. Not much of what I have, I can't fix. Dad is great help, too.



'Bout the only people that make any money off of me, are truckstops. Don't sit still much truckin' or farmin'.

 

[tgordon]

BILLVO, I know exactly what you are saying, I do parts in ag equipment. I had a guy come in for one part, complain about the price saying he could get it cheaper in the mail, I said good, add into that your freight and time and wow, he walked ou the door with two of the parts. My managers response was to roll over and play dead, he is a weany when confronted by customers. After the guy left and things slowed down I wen to the website and what he paid for the two chains was a full $0. 08 more than he would have paid for the unknown quality mail order chains.



As for the people who always complain about the cost of required stuff while they will spend anything fo rtheir toys/fun, that would be why I say keep out of industries that are the must have and get into the want to have industries. Just look at the paople who complain about the cost of food in one breath and then about the family farm giving way to the multi thousand acre farmers.

 

[merryman]

Individual experiences do not solve general discussions but they sometimes shape attitudes!!
A few years ago, I was a couple hundred miles from home, enroute elk hunting towing a trailer with 6 pack mules when my truck (a ford) developed a strange lack of power. I stopped at a Ford dealership in Hood River Oregon for help. Time was a real factor so I noted the time when I arrived, an fretted over the loss of daylight as I wanted to get to my camp site before dark. Exactly 45 minutes after arrival I was told the truck was ready and handed an itemized bill; it included THREE hours labor!! When I complained, I was told they followed the "Flat Rate" schedule and it was for my protection so that I would not be overcharged??? They also explained that the expensive diagnostic equipment, that enabled them to find the problem, had to be paid for
When I expressed displeasure with their position, another truck was pulled in behind mine and I was told my truck would be held untill the bill was paid. I paid. It only came to just under $400, of a little under $200. was for labor.
When I got back on the highway, I soon realized they had done nothing for the problem. It did not seem a good idea to return to that dealership for more help. As I drove along and thought about it, it occured to me that it was dragging brakes; yup, I coasted to a stop so as not to heat the brakes, and when I got out and touched the brake disk, it burned my hand. A ten minute adjustment of the master cylinder to brake booster solved the problem at no cost.
While I will readily conceed this was an exceptional incident, its the sort of thing that creates bad attitudes. I will return to a dealership now only as a last resort.

Vaughn

 

[fest3er]

... the destruction of the American IT corps ...

Did you, perchance, leave an 'e' off the end of that corpse? I'm not sure exactly which you intended.



BTW, y'all hear the latest? Seem India is outsourcing its call centers. Seems even they don't want to answer their own phones any more.

 

[rbattelle]

I had a guy come in for one part, complain about the price saying he could get it cheaper in the mail,

At the risk of getting off topic, this kind of thing annoys me as a customer. A few weeks ago I needed an adjustable spanner. I went to the local tool crib and they wanted - get this - $60! This was just a small spanner wrench (I think the largest size it would handle was 2 3/4"). It was made by Wright.



When I told them calmly that "$60 is awful expensive when McMaster has one for $15", they gave me a dirty look and told me "good luck, when the cheap piece of crap made-in-China thing breaks!".



So I left, and ordered the one from McMaster. $2 in shipping later, I recieved an AMERICAN MADE Armstrong brand spanner wrench.



I always do my research and make sure that the online deal really is superior.



Utter refusal to compete with the internet has caused me to take the vast majority of my business out of the local stores.



Add "destruction of the local businessman" to the list of things my lifestyle has caused.



Ryan

 

[bmoeller]

Add "destruction of the local businessman" to the list of things my lifestyle has caused.

You caused nothing. Their failure to adapt to the competition, is their problem. Not yours. In this case, those that don't play along, pay in the end. Compete, or die.



If he was talking about a place like Harbor Frieght or Northern Tool, I'd kind of have to agree, though. A lot of cheap junk. A lot of it seems to hold up OK, but some doesn't. Like a $15 angle grinder, for instance.

 

[ACoyle]

Some interesting points have been made here.



Local businessment competing with the Internet. If you watch closely and do your homework, you can save money on the internet. You cannot get that part / tool / whatever, on Saturday afternoon 30 minutes after you decide that you need it. Convenience has always cost more.



Part of doing you homework when buying from the INternet is that you may not know the brand or condition of what you are getting. While this is not always true you still need to be careful.



Customer service is another thing you loose over the internet. The best intentioned internet vendor cannot simply take another item off the shelf and hand it to you. Service goes down from there. Have you noticed how many of the websites do not have an address anywhere? An e-Mail will most likely not help with your porblems on a weekend afternoon.



The posative side is tht you can find literally anything on the Internet and the local merchant stocks what they stock. You can fing instruction and alternate ideas for what you are planning and make a much more informed decision.



Personally, I use the INternet extensively for research, Sometimes I buy there. I do consider shipping, delay in haveing what I need, and the impact of reduced / delayed customer service. These are all worth something. considering the number of broken links returned by search engines and failed Internet businesses, It is a good idea to keep enough of your local businessmen in business, so that they will be there in an emergency.

 

[rbattelle]

If he was talking about a place like Harbor Frieght or Northern Tool, I'd kind of have to agree, though. A lot of cheap junk. A lot of it seems to hold up OK, but some doesn't. Like a $15 angle grinder, for instance.

Amen! I never would insult a tool store owner by suggesting I might get a better deal at Harbor Freight. Might as well just spit on the guy.



Coyle, you make a good point. Research is the key on the internet. And patience. And you're right about availablility - if I HAD to have that spanner, I'd have no choice but to be gouged (which actually is annoying in itself).



And for the most part, you're right about the customer service. The problem with me is that almost universally every salesman/partsman/counterman I've ever encountered has treated me like I'm a complete moron and they know what I need better than I do.



Ironically, this has further pushed me toward the internet as a resource because I don't have to deal with being treated like I'm braindead.



Just to tie this all back to the thread title, these two facts: price and customer service, have, more than anything else, driven me from the local dealership. The dealer has become a place where I get sky-high parts prices and really awful customer service. Why shop there?



Ryan

On edit: maybe I am a moron and all these years the countermen have been trying to tell me something! Scary thought. :-laf

 

[ACoyle]

I have had similar treatment from countermen. I try to finese it, after all, the object is to get the part and get out the door. If you can somehow make them smile in the process, it is easire next time. Some things just can't be bought over the internet.



In my profession, I must oftem be alone in making the call and take the heat if it works. I liken that to buying ver the Internet. I do both I just try ot be wary. At least if I screw up on the Internet, I only have to listen to me ragging on myself.



The day that I can't control that I'm checking into the rubber room.



AC

 

[bmoeller]

Pretty lucky here, at least as far as parts stores go. The guys that run the NAPA store and the ones at Carquest are pretty good, and don't talk down to you. If I go over the bigger cites, completely different story. AutoZone seems to be the worst for not having real knowledgeable people, or the selection of parts for the diesels are a joke. Have to order most of the stuff, or what their books call for, is the wrong part anyhow.



I do buy some things over the 'net, but my biggest beef with it is, you usually starting getting more "pre-approved" credit card applications in the mail. Heck, it was the same deal after I bought my house. Even got 3 or 4 of them today alone.