the death of the diesel pickup

[Cummins Cowboy]

I have been driving dodge diesels since '96 bought my first in '99 back then diesel was cheaper than gas, and my ole 1st gen easily got 20 mpg, there where very few diesels on the road then, ford had the square powerstroke and chevy had a small number of 6. 5 diesels out there, the guys that ran diesels used the trucks to haul things and for work generally, fast forward to '07



driving a diesel truck has turned into a status symbol, like driving a hummer or something, there are so many people who lift their trucks put on big tires and just to drive to and from their office job, they may pull a small 4 wheeler trailer a few times each summer but thats it. you see most trucks around diesel powered I think they out number the gas rigs, this has placed a tremendous demand on diesel in my area, I have been paying 30-60 cents more per gallon for diesel because of the demand, now because of the numbers of trucks the EPA has gotten involved we now have trucks that are getting to the point of being no better than big block gassers in mileage, I don't know if I will be buying another diesel truck again

 

[Wiredawg]

Cummins Cowby,



I thinks the cost of diesel has more to do with the world demand for it than the light duty American small truck market. Granted, I'm not any happier than you are about the price of fuel, but I will still choose a diesel truck over a gasser. I'm not sure big block gassers are getting the same mileage we get w/ our trucks, especailly loaded. I don't think there are gassers rated to pull the loads the diesels do, but I could be wrong. The EPA is after anything that burns fuel on the highway. We all suffer at their hands.



As you can see in my signature element, we have three diesels. My wife puts 60 miles/day driving to work on her truck @ 18. 5 MPG, I tow a 17K 5er w/ my 3500 and the W250 is just for fun. We love our trucks and will drive them 'til the wheels fall off and then will buy Dodge/Cummins again. As for mileage, the best tank I've gotten on the '93 is 19. 0 mpg. I always seem to get the worst mileage on anything I drive. Could be my lead foot.



With having an '06, you shouldn't have to worry about buying again for a while, but when you do, who knows, you might get bit again. BTW, what mileage are you getting?

 

[lil red cummins]

AMEN C. C. !



my thoughts exactly. i am glad i bought my truck back in Oct 03. there is NO way i would buy a diesel truck now. i drive maybe 12,000 miles/yr.



as you say, there is almost no mileage advantage over gas and with the price of the truck and the price of fuel, the only people buying one of these trucks, will be those that use it for business where they travel upwards of 100,000 miles per year.



it really burns me that the auto industry and diesel engine manufacturers have not stood up to the EPA and tell them NO.



how come Europe has a different emissions standard for their diesels, but the USA is too stupid to figure out that diesels don't "run" the same as a gas engine and should not have the same emissions requirements.



once again, our government has taken away one of our liberties, not to mention putting a damper on commerce.



the tendency towards socialism, i. e. taking away my freedom, in this country scares me.



Jim

 

[rbattelle]

i am glad i bought my truck back in Oct 03. there is NO way i would buy a diesel truck now.

Lots of people seem to be making the same choice. I see MANY new gas powered 3/4 and 1-ton trucks popping up on local roads. It will be interesting to see what happens to light duty diesel sales over the next couple years.

the tendency towards socialism, i. e. taking away my freedom, in this country scares me.

Me too. I don't believe socialism can work.



Ryan

 

[SilverSage]

Every thing you have is affected by diesel fuel. Every thing you purchase came to you by: train, tractor trailer, boat or plane; all of which run on diesel. Oil companies can charge ANY amount of money they want because every product you have depends on diesel! Diesel seems to be the best fuel that can currently be produced as a bio fuel and not rely on dino products for its production. So, where is all the bio diesel?

 

[DCreed]

As soon as Willy N. learns how to make good diesel out of marijuana stalks we'll be OPEC free!:-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[Bluebird]

Not only status but smart. Most of us around here have been driving a CTD because we learned it was the best bang for the buck, and keeps getting the job done many miles down the road. I like the fact more folks drive diesels keeps the fuel supply flowing through them undergroud tanks, result: fresh fuel. By the way I am averaging 21mpg in my '93. I just take 'er easy most of the time...



Patrick.

 

[CSnyder]

Even though cost ratio between gas and diesel fuel is an average now you have to take into consideration that in the long run you would replace a few motors in a gas truck and you have to stop to refuel more frequently. I was able to go 200 or so miles on a tank of fuel in my V-10 and I can go 400 plus miles on a tank in my diesel while towing with either. Fuel stops over a lifetime also effect fuel costs out of pocket.

 

[SierraRam]

Wow I guess I am one of those guys driving up the price of diesel there Cummins Cowboy. I will sell my truck tomorrow because I guess I don't meet your standards to own a Cummins! God bless America.

 

[BILLUA]

"I don't care who you are, that right thar was funny"

 

[HBarlow]

Anyone considering replacing his CTD with a big block gasser would only have to pull a heavy fifth wheel RV trailer or heavy loaded cargo trailer coast to coast one time to realize that a gasser lacks the power and fuel economy to compete. I'm talking about real life working fuel mileage not exaggerating across the fuel island to the guy in the next lane.



If the above doesn't matter to you consider the service life of a working heavy duty pickup. A CTD will last several hundred thousand miles pulling heavy loads everyday without an overhaul. I know several owners who have put 600k to 900k miles on a Cummins powered Dodge Ram pulling travel trailers commercially. No gas engine will even come close.



Then there's the matter of resale value. A gas engined pickup with 100k miles on the odometer is not worth much. A well cared for CTD will sell for a good price even with 200k or 300k miles on it.



If you use your pickup truck for commuting to work, for an occasional trip to the lake in summer months pulling your trailered boat, or an occasional weekend camping trip pulling your light travel trailer to a nearby state park a gas engine will work fine and may be cheaper in the long run.



I've owned gas powered pickup trucks and pulled travel trailers with them. As long as diesel engines are offered in Dodge Rams I will own and drive one.



Harvey

 

[Flinty]

Wife and I had a cost comparison/number crunching session about a month ago. The family car is a 92 suburban, it gets about 14mpg on a good day, usually 12. Not including insurance we pay $. 25. 2/mile to operate. This includes tires, oil changes, repairs, etc. Remember no ins. and I do all the mechanicing myself. We then considered a '98 12v. Going off the #'s my '97 delivers we figured a minimum of 18mpg and having to deal with the up front costs of a dodge (kdp, steering, fuel system, etc. ) our cost including paying 7% on 6 grand for three years will be $. 22. 5/mile. This figure goes down dramatically when the note is payed off and all we do is maintain to $. 17. 5/mile. So if an individual is handy with a wrench and can stand being seen in a used rig the diesel will save you money, not to mention the family grocery getter is built like a tank and is faster than 60% of everything on the road. I guess the key points are buy used, fix it yourself if you can.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I bought the truck cuz I wanted it.

 

[Pavemen]

I parked my 97 gasser and turned it into a trail truck. bought a used 99 CTD last year.

get nearly double the MPG and is a blast to drive. insurance is more for the CTD as I dropped certain coverages on the gasser, but until fuel is 175% of gas price, I am coming out ahead, even with the maintenance.

the gasser gets a lot more looks driving down the road though

 

[PPettit]

Lets see here, my buddie had the 8. 1L in his Jimmy got maybe 11mpg running empty. With his trailer hooked up it drops to 8 or less. Another guy I work with had a Ferd with the V10. At 418ci it's not a huge gasser. He never got better than 14 running empty. My son in laws boss has a power wagon with the hemi. Its lifted and has big tires but NEVER sees double digit mpg. Cummins Cowboy, I agree with you that the fuel milage on the new diesels is pathetic. But the power levels that we have demanded as consumers have done as much to drive this as the emmisions standards. and they are still better than a new truck with a gasser.

 

[SilverSage]

The point of this thread is that not too long ago diesel fuel cost $. 25 less than regular gas and now it cost $. 30 more than high-test. The supposed cause of this increase is the people who drive fancy smancy highly modified Pickup Trucks. They are only an infinitesimal percentage of diesel users. Every product you own was at some point moved or produced by diesel fuel. That is where the quantities of diesel fuel go. Airlines, ocean going ships, trains (most of which are never shut down), semi trucks and most farm tractors must pay what ever the going price of diesel is and pass the cost on to all of us. As for me, my 05 Ram CTD only gets 9 MPG in town and 13 MG on the highway loaded or not. But it's a great ride and pulls a travel trailer with out breaking a sweat. I have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars trying to get the MPGs up to levels that many of you report. I am going to play so I simply will have to pay. My Ram CDT is not a status symbol, it is a power tool, all be it a very nice one. I will stay with my Ram.

 

[Flinty]

Man, Silver, I'm sorry about your MPG. It never ceases to amaze me how mileage from one rig to another will vary. Thanks for your honesty. I agree with your observation.

For instance, one twelve cylinder engine will consume 93 gallons/hr under load, 3 gallons/hr at idle, multiply that by all the trains on the track these days and the number must be staggering. And that's just the rail industry!

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

Look at all the semi's on the roads. We pay more for diesel than gas because the oil companies know the semi's can't operate without it and they can charge whatever they like. Trucking companies don't suffer as much as we do they just tack on a fuel surcharge to every load of freight. This retired blue collar worker is enjoying driving a status symbol, except when I am getting hosed at the pump.

 

[HBarlow]

Look at all the semi's on the roads. We pay more for diesel than gas because the oil companies know the semi's can't operate without it and they can charge whatever they like. Trucking companies don't suffer as much as we do they just tack on a fuel surcharge to every load of freight. This retired blue collar worker is enjoying driving a status symbol, except when I am getting hosed at the pump.

Jburchfield:



Try walking into the lounge of a truck stop and explaining the part about how trucking companies don't suffer, they can just tack on that fuel surcharge to the truckers taking a break from the road. Let us know how you make out with the truckers, particularly the owner/operators who pay for their own fuel.



Fuel prices are determined by supply and demand. It is the first most basic concept you learn in an economics class. It's real simple to understand: when demand goes up, prices rise. When demand is soft, prices decline. In the last few years China and India have become more modern, industrialized societies demanding more crude oil to fuel their economies. That increased demand raises the price of crude oil on the world market. Oil companies have very little to do with the price of diesel fuel. They buy crude, transport it, refine it, distribute it, and make a small profit per gallon. Federal, state, and local governments make a larger profit off the work of oil companies than the oil companies do.



Harvey

 

[JHerr]

I agree with HBarlow. Fuel prices are based on world supply and demand. China and India are becoming mobilized and that increases demand. Also, the fact that virtually half of all new cars sold in Europe are diesel-powered has more to do with diesel demand than we Americans who choose to drive efficient, powerful diesel-powered pickups.