Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) The p0216 fun has begun. Arghhh!

[TSchmitt]

Is my VP44 on the way out? Or just the lift pump?



About 3 weeks ago the engine light came on. I don't drive much, but it went out after a week or so (I wasn't watching the odometer for mileage). At the time, I didn't know you could check the codes via the dash.



A few day later it's back on. I was putting on more miles then normal and started noticing a few things.

- When lifting off the pedal to coast, it is real lurchy.

- Same thing when getting back on the pedal.

- Pretty major black smoke when accelerating moderately. Never saw this before. I mean it was a big cloud visible in my rear view mirror.



I only have 29k on the truck. It's been pretty much a commuter plus hauling my 21' toy-hauler every now and again or dragging around my KTM dirt bike.

So, Monday, I take it in to the Dodge dealer here in Jacksonville.



They were real quick getting back to me and stated that they had pulled the p0216 code and stated that they would have to run some more "tests". uh-oh...



I just got off the phone with the tech and he stated that they had been running tests and working with Star on the issue.



Get this... He said they measured 2psi out of the lift pump! Hmmm... Could that be a problem?

Then they cleared the fault and had to put 20 miles on the truck to see if it comes on (per Star). The fault didn't come back. He said he will drive it some more in the morning, but then what?? They better not try to give me back the truck with the same lift pump, as he even admitted that the pressure was out of spec. Can they even wipe their butt without going through Star?

They won't commit yet to replacing the lift pump or VP44.



Sighhh...



T

 

[mbrolin]

If the lift pump is out of spec,per the technician,then that at least should be replaced. As far as the injector pump being bad,thats another story. Per Star they have to duplicate the conditions which caused the code. If the code does not come back up then they wont do anything. Evidently,someone in the engineering dept must feel that its possible for the ECM to throw a code out of the blue for no reason. Some sort of computer glitch. If your lift pump has been bad for a while its possible the injector pump is going out. Problem is Star will not replace it until its completely dead. And yes, the technician can not wipe there butt or anyone elses without Stars permission. Especially when warranty related.

 

[Sticks]

Hang in there. I went through the same thing on mine. First LP was replaced by dealer #1. 0216 code kept coming back, and dealer would not do anything until more symptoms showed other than the code. 3k miles later, dealer #2 looks at it, tells me the VP is bad... AND THE NEW LP! Evidently the weak VP caused the new LP to over work itself and killed it as well.



Keep checking your codes, every day if necessary, and either have the dealer clear it every time it comes up, or Auto Zone, and log it with date and mileage. After about 10 times, go back to the dealer and say, "Look, the code will not stay gone. Something must be wrong with the VP because of the failed LP. " If they shrug their shoulders and do nothing, find another dealer.

 

[TSchmitt]

The first run-in with the dealer is almost over. Their shuttle is on the way over right now to pick me up.



The Service Writer called me today and stated that the next step was to replace the fuel filter on my dime as they can't get the p0216 to show after test driving (I'm due in 400 miles anyway). I quizzed him on the 2psi, which he knew nothing about. He finally admitted that he knew nothing about diesels and had no training on them. I told him there was no way they were giving me back the truck with that kind of pressure. I'm a pretty mellow guy, but I'm starting to get a little frustrated here. I expect a little more for a $30K truck.

So he says he'll get back to me. Eventually the Asst Service Manager calls me and we have a little more sensible conversation. He said the pressure was actually 10-12 psi, but they just told Star 2psi hoping to get authorization to replace the LP, which they did not.



So... I had them replace the filter (no labor charge, but the oem filter cost makes up for that!). All I can do is keep driving it and do what Michael recommended. Log everything and then find a dealer that has some diesel experience.

Anybody know a good dealer in Jacksonville?



I think gauges are next on the list as well. I've been blind up until now.



Until then...



T

 

[TSchmitt]

Got the p0216 again today after only 200 miles.

Off to the dealer I go...



T

 

[fyrescott]

The P0216 is the injector pump timing. If you reset it at the Dealer it will not come on right away. You probably also have a lift pump failing on top of the injector pump. I hate to say, but either way you have to replace both... I just had mine done on Wed the 28th. And I only have 25K on the truck.

 

[TSchmitt]

Did you get it replaced under warranty? If so, what kind of dance did you have to do?



As you can see in my previous posts, I did just have the dealer reset it 200 miles ago. That is pretty quick in my book.



T

 

[s2Mumford]

Originally posted by fyrescott

The P0216 is the injector pump timing. If you reset it at the Dealer it will not come on right away. You probably also have a lift pump failing on top of the injector pump. I hate to say, but either way you have to replace both... I just had mine done on Wed the 28th. And I only have 25K on the truck.

Hi Scott, 2 Questions:



1) Who paid for the work?



2) Did you have any mods to the truck?



I'm gearing up for a confrontation with Dodge/ Cummins because they're trying to deny me warranty because I modded my truck.



Thanks

Stuart Mumford



PS I have 38k miles on mine.

 

[fyrescott]

1) It was covered under warranty

2) I did remove the Edge EZ and Boost elbow before I brought it in



They never said anything about the rest.

 

[fyrescott]

TShmitt,



No doubt it's on it's way out. The question is when?

 

[s2Mumford]

Originally posted by fyrescott

1) It was covered under warranty

2) I did remove the Edge EZ and Boost elbow before I brought it in



They never said anything about the rest.

I'm sorry but I'm not hip to the design of the Edge EZ... Does it pierce the wire on the injector pump?



Thanks

Stuart Mumford

 

[fyrescott]

No the Edge EZ does not pierce the wire. If it was I would have bought the Pump.

 

[s2Mumford]

Originally posted by fyrescott

No the Edge EZ does not pierce the wire. If it was I would have bought the Pump.

Yay!

 

[Ncostello]

I quizzed him on the 2psi, which he knew nothing about. He finally admitted that he knew nothing about diesels and had no training on them

Then 'they ain't' no way I would have let them change the fuel filter on my truck. Its supposed to be pretty basic... but sometimes it can be a little tricky too.

 

[TSchmitt]

The saga continues...

ODO

29,785 Back from Regency Dodge after no repair.

29,986 Engine light and P0216 code again.

30,262 Engine light is out and fault cleared itself. Oops... It's back on. All I have to do is put the pedal to the floor once and the code gets set.

30,625 Engine light still on. Went on a little trip and starting getting more erratic symptoms.

The engine will crank over several times before firing. Usually it starts practically before you can let off the key.

Twice when slowing to about 50mph in 6th gear on the freeway empty, I could not accelerate afterwards. I could put the pedal to the floor... Nothing! After letting all the way off the pedal it would then return to normal.



I took it in to Westside Dodge here in Jacksonville this morning. They seem to deal in a lot of trucks and the mechanic supposedly has had 3 Dodge Cummins himself. I got a call this evening and they already ordered the injection pump! No questions, no squabbling, just doing what is expected. They should have it in a couple of days.

Goes to show you how ridiculous some dealers are. So far the service has been great at Westside. We'll see how the finished product is.



So... Can I expect this every 30k miles? I sure hope not.



T

 

[krs]

Any dealer that tries to avoid changing the VP44 pump after a code 0216 should be avoided themselves. That code ALWAYS means that the pump has a fault and is either already failed or soon will. People who continue to accept their excuses, their claims about the Star restrictions, are accepting poor customer service.



"So... Can I expect this every 30k miles? I sure hope not"



It can't be predicted.



s2Mumford, there is a specific TSB service directive which points out to dealers where to look for piercing by the Edge Comp. If they detect the mod they will rightly deny any warranty repair of the fuel delivery systems.

 

[WTBurke]

Guys. . I'm in the same situation and I've been letting off the peddle for over 3000 miles now. Put my own factory LP via Cummins ($155) by myself. Pressure returned to 15 psi @ idle, it was 7 before the change out. Been to Oroville Dodge (they are idiots) been into Chico Dodge they are telling me it has to die on the road before STAR will give them a pump. They did "the flow test before I replaced the LP and said it "passed" the test. At 7psi I knew STAR was now back-peddling the issue. BTW I'm at 76 k miles now and this began at 73 k miles. I was in Southern California and went into Simi Dodge the service Dept. Head took two rides with me in two days cleared my 0216 codes three times and stated that since it won't do the "dead peddle" thing with him in the vehicle with his scanner hooked up he can not "lie" to STAR and claim it is "doing the thing". I've had my codes cleared so many times I don't bother with it anymore.

DC SUCKS!

I want a VP44 under warranty... and then I'll do the FASS or Preporator delivery system and NEVER RETURN TO A DODGE SERVICE DEPT. AGAIN!

I was told by a certain service writer who I can't name... she stated to me that all 24v CTD's should be recalled... she knows why and so does everybody else in nearly every Dodge service center.



William

 

[TSchmitt]

Let's hope this is finally finished...

I picked up my truck yesterday from the dealer.

They replaced the VP44 and the air cleaner, of all things, under warranty. I hadn't looked at the air cleaner, as it was only about 50% at 30k miles. That thing was filthy! I though it was pretty decent for Dodge to replace it for free.



The dealer was pretty good, but missed some details.

I had them reattach some of the wire looms before I left and as soon as I pulled out on the street, it sounded like an F-16 was taxiing by! Every time I stepped on the pedal and turbo spun up a bit, I get a big whoosh from the engine compartment. It's gotta be an air leak. Back I go to the dealer and tell the service writer that they induced a leak in the intake plumbing. They didn't have a diesel mechanic on Saturday, but he had somebody look at the connections. His analysis was that since the air cleaner had been replaced, it would sound different. Oh geez! There's quite a difference between turbo whine and lots of air escaping!

I drove it home and looked it over today. They only had to remove one clamp on the intake to get at the VP44. It's the one leading from the intake manifold down to the intercooler. Luckily, I just loosened it up, wiggled it around, tightened it down real good and bingo! Back to normal.



So, this story is done... for now.



Those of you fighting the dealers on this... They're full of BS. This dealer did need to recreate the fault code, but since I told then how easy that was, they cleared it, test drove it and got the fault code. They then got approval from Star to replace. If they won't replace the VP44 then tell them to fix what ever is causing the darned fault code. That ought to confuse them good enough.



T