The Truth - Gun Control

[Crazy Horse]

It could happen here . . .

----- Original Message -----

Subject: A Word from Australia re: Firearms

Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:05 AM

From: Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia.



Hi Yanks,



I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.



It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new

law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to

be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers

more than $500 million dollars. (That's over $780. 78 PER gun!!)



The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides

are up 3. 2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8. 6

percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with

firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens

turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)



While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed

robbery with firearms, this has changed

drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are

guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also

been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly.



Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public

safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended

in "successfully ridding Australian society of

guns. "



You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear your governor or

members of the state Assembly disseminating this information.



The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest

citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws

affect only the law-abiding citizens.



Take note Americans, before it's too late!

 

[JTBMC]

Sell NRA Memberships to all your friends and family members. This is what I do.

I need spell check, I wouldnt have to edit so much

 

[Don M]

I watch as Charlton H. told the story that would happen to Australians if they let this happen. Well... ... it happened!



It is common knowledge that if you make it easier to be a criminal that more people will take it up as a profession.

Why on earth would they take firearms away from the people that are not criminals... the deterent affect is gone now. 300 % does not surprise me a bit.

I saw piles and piles of guns 30 feet high and 50 feet in diameter being distroyed from Australia.



The are a democracy over there ya know... they could have voted against it all.





I watched as the big cities tried to sue the gun makers of this country and it made me sick. Guns gave us what we have.

Germany took them away from thier people too ya know... look what happened over there in the 30's.



Don~

 

[mdlowry]

Originally posted by tjlaffite

Sell NRA Memberships to all your friends and family members. This is what I do.

I need spell check, I wouldnt have to edit so much

From what I have seen the NRA is not interested in protecting the 2nd. Here is some information on why I say this.



Michael



NRA's motto: Compromise at all costs!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I mostly agree with Michael - and tho' *I* am a NRA member, this bit from Michaels' pointer pretty well sums up the basic philosophy and actions of the NRA:



On Concealed Carry and the NRA

by L. Neil Smith

-- email address removed --

Many individuals have asked me where I stand on the issue of concealed carry permits -- and whether the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus which I founded several years ago is likely to join in political coalitions with other organizations that concern themselves with Second Amendment issues.



I've put off writing about these matters before now, because it isn't easy, knowing that you're likely to alienate good friends and allies by insisting that they face hard truths. But the press of current events -- the increasingly obvious reluctance of the new Republican majority in Congress to make good on their promises to the gun owners who elected them, along with an insane eagerness on the part of nominally pro-gun organizations like the National Rifle Association to accept utter defeat on the eve of total victory -- make it impossible to put it off any longer.



As Robert A. Heinlein once observed, "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. " To take it a step further, there are natural-born Tories in life, who only feel comfortable when they're groveling to some kind of authority, and there are individuals who won't grovel, no matter what it costs them.



This nation, America, was created by the latter sort, while the former ran away to Canada where, for the next eleven generations or so, they could comfortably grovel to kings, queens, and socialist bureaucrats. And just as some Canadians have since learned better than their Tory predecessors -- we'll be hearing more and more from them in the near future -- many descendants of those first Americans have become the very thing their ancestors fought so hard against.



Those who beg permission from the government to exercise a right they already possess are not free men and women. They're Tories; they're grovelers. They'd beg permission from the government to breathe, if they were told it was required of them. If they were told it was required of them, they'd beg permission from the government, even to grovel.



A license -- government permission -- to carry a concealed weapon is nothing but the latest kind of gun control, the latest kind of groveling. There's no way to euphemize it; there's no way to excuse it. It isn't necessary: nobody needs the government's permission to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise. And it's illegal under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution for government, at any level, to require it. That's right, it's illegal; and it's a primary goal of the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus to jail those in government, elected or otherwise, who obstruct the Bill of Rights in any way.



It's also dangerous: it converts a fundamental human right into a privilege which the government may see fit to deny to anyone, for any reason, at any time is wishes. How anyone could be aware of history for the last hundred years -- especially the last fifty -- and not acknowledge this basic truth is beyond understanding.



From their public words and actions, it's clear that those who presently control the National Rifle Association -- I don't mean the duly-elected Board of Directors -- are Tories and grovelers, no matter what they claim to the contrary. Just listen to what they say if you doubt it, or read their literature. Half of it is devoted to demonstrating to their masters in the government just what excellent Tories and grovelers they are. Notice, too, the way that some of them claim lately to be "tough" -- but how they invariably reserve their toughness for individuals ostensibly on their own side who happen to disagree with them, rather than for real enemies of individual liberty and the Second Amendment.



Now those who presently control the National Rifle Association want uniform laws from state to state regulating the way Americans will be allowed to carry weapons. To get them, once again they're "wheeling and dealing" in Congress -- with my rights as the stake -- a fool's game they always lose because they're such embarrassingly clumsy amateurs, playing against the pros. Instead, they should simply demand the immediate fulfillment of Republican promises to repeal unconstitutional gun laws which could never have been passed without the cheerful assistance of the likes of "Brady Bill-Bob" Dole and Newt "Suspend the Bill of Rights" Gingrich.



As one who's fought the battle of the Second Amendment for more than 30 years -- all the while watching in unbelieving disgust as the National Rifle Association bargained away my rights through bad tactics, worse strategy, an utter lack of moral principle, and an overpowering urge to grovel to authority -- I challenge those who presently control the National Rifle Association to deny or affirm a principle put forward by the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus as the Atlanta Declaration:





Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission.

If those who presently control the National Rifle Association cannot affirm this principle, then they are enemies of individual liberty who should resign immediately and leave the field forever to those Americans who can manage to remember what their country and its Constitution are all about.



If, on the other hand, they affirm it -- and publicly abandon their advocacy of anything less than stringent and uncompromising enforcement of the Bill of Rights (along with their disgraceful eagerness to accept excuses and "clever" strategies from Republicans instead of decisive and effective action) -- I'll be happy to advise the many friends of the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus to join with the National Rifle Association in a coalition to advance the cause of individual liberty.

 

[AggieJustin]

This is not 100% about gun control... but it's still got some relevance. And one of the best comebacks I've heard in a while.



--------------------------------------



Comeback of the Year



I was listening to the radio the other day, and I heard one of the all-time best comeback lines in my life. Note: This is an exact replication of National Public Radio (NPR) interview between a female broadcaster, and US Army General Reinwald who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military installation.



FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?"

GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery, and shooting. "

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?"

GENERAL REINWALD: "I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range. "

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?"

GENERAL REINWALD: "I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm. "

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: "But you're equipping them to become violent killers. "

GENERAL REINWALD: "Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you? "



The radio went silent and the interview ended. And all I could think was, "Go Army!"

 

[Crazy Horse]

"Go Army" Very good reply!

 

[joel]

NOT the truth... an urban legend.

Before you spread all this reactionary stuff around, you ought to do just a little checking. This particular legend has been floating around for a while now. Check here: http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/ausguns.htm for an explaination of why this isn't "The Truth".

 

[nps]

Joel,



The 'proof' of the urban legend seems just as suspect as the claim itself. Doesn't really say it is false, just trying to put a different spin on the reading of the tea leaves. Not exactly a legend IMO - more like a lawyer's defence arguement.

 

[SteveH]

Do we have a liberal in our midst? My Schnauzer had a litter of little liberal puppies. They were born with their eyes closed but after a few weeks they became Republicans because they opened their eyes. Heh Heh Heh Heh!



I, for one, believe in gun control. I taught gun control for years in the police department and I firmly believe that anyone should be able to hit what they are shooting at and not whats next to it. If you can't control the gun you are shooting, you should practice a little more. GIG-UM AGGIES Great come-back to the liberal reporter!!

Steve H

 

[swamp rat]

Busted!

Yeah I am almost ashamed to admit it, but when it comes to gun control I cheat! I use a Laser sight. At night, I use a laser sight w/night vision too! One thing for sure, I never miss my target by more than a few millimeters.

 

[Crazy Horse]

The bottom line is one's belief and that there are two groups of people in the America today. Those who believe we should give up our sovereignty and become a part of "The World Order" and those who don't. I DO NOT! Disarming private citizens is the largest obstacle the yeasayers have. I am not intrested in having the United Nations policing my neighborhood or having any of my American freedoms taken away. Private citizens are the ones who liberated this country and established our freedoms that we have today. An armed society is one without tyranny.