The U.S Fish & Wildlife stepped on the wrong toes

[Mille4212]

Well guys I hope there are no hard feeling between us. Guess I'll just stay in the truck section . I can see all of your points . I hope you can at least see some of my points too. I know we have alot of rude hunters out there that shoot the sign up and I know that makes it hard for the land owners to trust the sportsman along with destroying their property. And I know it makes it harder on honest sportsman to gain access I really don't need it for big game but access for bird hunting on the eastern plains would have been nice when they use to leave cover (thing of the past) . Who knows where hunting will be before long with all this CWD. Looks like they have a real problem up in Wyoming with the Elk falling over dead . Now on to a real serious note when they make it legal to shoot the wolves can I take one off your property, I really need to make a hat for the Rendezvous .



PS Like I said above hope there are no hard feeling.

 

[mcoleman]

I don't allow anyone to hunt on my farm due to the fact that I as well as my 2 sons hunt and also there are too many sue happy people in the world today. I do however have a small cabin behind the barn and friends are welcome to stay in it and go down the lane behind my place and hunt on several thousand acres of National Forest land that surrounds my place on 3 sides. I will not hesitate however to call the gamewarden on idiots that stop on the road and shoot at wildlife standing in foodplots that I planted on my property. I guess they are too stupid to notice that I also have horses in various fields around the place.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

Now on to a real serious note when they make it legal to shoot the wolves can I take one off your property, I really need to make a hat for the Rendezvous .

I hope you're kidding, Renegade - One of my pets is between 80-90% wolf. One of the best and smartest animals I've ever had. I don't take too kindly to hunting wolves. I understand there is a need for predator control, and have no problem with that, but hunting them for sport is out of the question in my book. Fish and Game doesn't thrill me, either, as they used to run them down in helicopters, in the wilderness of Alaska, under the guise of predator control. I'm not an environmentalist wacko, and I don't like PETA, either, but there's limits. Just my . 02



Jim

 

[GiesJ]

More Reading on the subject:

http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar.../wyoming/74b3b9c11b26064787256e4d000ada75.txt

 

[Vaquero]

No hard feelings on my part.

I have found that the general public is very uninformed and/or misinformed on many of the issues in rural America and I just wanted some of the facts to be put on the table.

Have a good one, Kris

 

[Vaquero]

Re: CRP

Originally posted by BCook1

One of these days, the federal government will realize that they can buy land for a lot less than they spend on the CRP program. Then they will begin buying land and returning it to federal control. The tax base will go down in rural areas and the demise of rural areas will accelerate. Wait, what am I saying. A federal program that looks at saving money??? It will never happen. Nothing to worry about.

I agree with you that it would be cheaper but that would put the government in competition with citizens and I don't think voters will ever let that happen. What they are doing is paying for conservation easements which puts a restriction on what can be done with the land in the future (must stay in Ag, can't be developed, etc. ). They are basically paying the land owners to keep it open land and rural while compensating them for the loss of income they could have made from selling it or doing something else with it. It is either the government or an environmental group or a mixture thereof doing this.

 

[WyoJim]

Here is an up date from Cody's paper



http://www.codyenterprise.com/articles/2004/03/04/news/news1.txt

 

[4STR]

Renegade -



"... when hunting season starts you can heard the animals to keep them on your land for your paying customer... "



Do you honestly think that landowners ,espcially busy farmers and ranchers, have the time to do this? During the fall they are much to busy harvesting crops and/or moving livestock to winter range . In addition, they have to market their products, balance books, repair equipment and get ready for the coming spring season.



Secondly, you stated"... to gain access I really don't need it for big game but access for bird hunting... ". You indicated above that you have an issue with landowners "hearding" game animals onto their property. And you have issues with not having access to hunt birds. So do you think landowners are hearding birds onto their property?!

 

[BCook1]

I can see it now.

Bird herder - man that would take some skills. Think how good you would have to be to be a roper. Careful during the takedown - might fly off with your horse. Next I am going to shovel out the pond.

 

[jandtjil]

Originally posted by 4STR

Do you honestly think that landowners ,espcially busy farmers and ranchers, have the time to do this?

I've seen it!!!

In this case dropping the fence along the forest boundary, (scouting a couple days before the season started we watched one of the hands on horse back drop fence for at least 1/2 mile)hmm which side is going to get hunted harder... private / Ntnl forest ?

It was not a small spread and from what I know it is not a REAL working ranch, (a feather in someones cap), the ranch more than likely is a tax write-off. Another poor year, oh darn! Tell the outfitters that we are raising our rate another $300 for a Bull permit.

"But hey, we offer a wild natural experience here on the Awhole ranch, we have a pack of Wolves, (that feed off the neighbors livestock on occasion) bring your camera too".

Just like attending major league sports, hunting will become unreachable for the little guy.

Sorry off topic, but had to vent.



JJ

 

[4STR]

jandjil



I believe there is a simple exlanation for what you witnessed.



Based on my experience, the rancher was dropping the fence along National Forest boundary because that is required for migration of deer and elk to winter range. I know, I worked seasonally (several years) for the BLM and USFS and that was sometimes (ususally the ranch hands did it) part of my job - dropping MILES of barbed wire fence to prevent blocking/interfering with elk and deer moving to winter range. This task was usually done in late fall (Octoberish) when the livestock were rounded up and moved to winter range and before the snow got too deep.

It didn't matter if the fence was along the border of private and public land. That is why the barbed wire fences are mounted to the metal posts with clips, it is easier to drop the fence and remount it in the summer when the livestock is moved to summer range. Generally, the only wooden posts are at stress panels in long straight stretches of fence and at the corners. Other interesting facts about the barbed wire fences are the height of the top wire and height of the bottom wire. I do not recall the exact dimensions but the top wire strand could not be over a certain height and the bottom wire strand could not be lower than a certain level (16"-17" (? ) above ground). The top strand height restriction was too keep the fence low enough for elk and deer to jump over. Deer and elk will jump fences until the snow gets too deep. The bottom strand needed to be high enough for antelope to crawl under! Again, I am familiar with this based on building alot of fences on BLM/USFS land. Not too many crews screwed up on this more than once. Funny how restringing a few thounsand feet of barbed wire fence makes a crew pay attention to the specs in the drawings.

 

[Mille4212]

Originally posted by 4STR





Secondly, you stated"... to gain access I really don't need it for big game but access for bird hunting... ". You indicated above that you have an issue with landowners "hearding" game animals onto their property. And you have issues with not having access to hunt birds. So do you think landowners are hearding birds onto their property?! [/B]

Sorry 4STR I guess I should have stayed on one subject instead of small game and big game. Yes I have seen ranch hands keeping Elk and deer on their property (NOT BIRDS). Which isn't legal to begin with. They have even showed the ranch hands on TV around Steamboat Springs hearding the animals too and I'm not real sure what came out of it. Now when it comes to bird hunting on the eastern plains of Colorado we do have alot of trust lands and SWA's but they get hit pretty hard by all the hunters too. When you ask to hunt privite land 95% of the time you get turned down I guess thats why the farmers don't leave much cover anymore then they don't get bugged by hunters. Hope I made a little more sence this time.

 

[4STR]

Renegade-



Thanks for the reply to square that up. Actually, I was being a little facetious and for that I apologize. Sounds like you have some bad apples in your neck of the woods. Fortunately, I have not seen anything like that, I know I would be upset if I did.

 

[Mille4212]

Hey not a problem 4STR seems like we have bad apples on both sides of the fence. Its just something we have to deal with I guess.