Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) the ultimate lift pump solution

[OPoole]

like Bob wagner said there is a New product coming out SOON it's a true bolt on with no press. drops and you don't have to buy a cam.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

Originally posted by Hohn

My bad, it's 800 lb/hr..... http://216.242.145.16/products/product.phtml?p=44

isn't 800lb/hr only like 130gph?



jim

 

[rubberneck]

Jim, I think your math is pretty close to correct, but remember, that is 800 lb/hr at 45 psi, thats pretty huge. Most other pumps like the holley you previously ran is rated at free flow.

 

[Hohn]

Yeah, that's the wrinkle here. The Aero pump is rated @45psi and 13. 5 volts. They have available the graphs of the fuel delivery curves at different pressures and voltage of all their pumps.



If I'm not mistaken, that 800 lb/hr @45psi would become over 1600 lb/hr @ 40psi. Dropping it down to the 20psi most of us would want for our VPs, and you're looking at 3200 lb/hr, right? Maybe not.



I would suspect that to run this pump successfully, you'd have to enlarge the return lines CONSIDERABLY. You'd be bypassing a LOT of flow at idle and low-load conditions.



Aero offers an electronic pump controller that's similar to an auto transmission for your pump. I like the idea. It basically cuts the voltage to the pump at low load, and then ramps it up proportionately as load/RPM increases.



I like this new Marine pump of Aeromotive's, but I have to tell you that it sure seems like a LOT of work to get one plumbed in and regulated, etc.



Justin

 

[csutton7]

yes I have the areromotive 1000--yes I'm 100% gravity fed--yes I have a regulator and separate bypass(-08AN)--pressure means only that you have fuel--flow is the key---bigger is better---did I mention that I'm almost at 3 yrs with this pump:G, changed one filter and that's my pre filter--going to finally change the one at the engine as I think that's test enuff that my setup and being 100% gravity fed is what's needed for electric pumps---



how is this hot rod VP pump is living and others have failed--are the bugs worked out or was something different done to this pump vs the ones that were sold---I know we don't hear a lot about the hot rods that live, so I'm just asking, cuz I don't know and when you hear only about the ones with probs then one starts to think that the hot rod pump should stay on the shelf---again just wondering ----chris

 

[Froadin]

Actually the pump puts out 800 lbs/hr at about 10 psi. And a little over 600 at 45 psi.

Typical of most pumps, it is all in the wording.

"Flows over 800 lbs. per hour @ 13. 5 Volts and 45 PSI. "

doesn't mean it flows that amount AT that psi. Otherwise all those cheapo electric pumps could support tons of flow at high psi.

So if you regulated it at 20 psi, you would have about 740 lbs/hr, which is a good amount of fuel, and a good amount of flow through the VP44 to keep it cool.

Only problem with running this much overkill is that you start putting more heat into your fuel from wasted pressure/heat generated by the pump, etc. But it would be great for the high HP junkies out there.

 

[Hohn]

That's what I was thinking. In a cold weather climate, maybe that heat would be a good thing. But the wasted effort is certainly inefficient.



If there was a way to control the PUMP itself, then this could be a great solution. Instead of running the pump WOT all the time and having to choke down the flow with regulation, wouldn't it be better to just control how much flow the pump generates to begin with??



Imagine having your FP gauge CLIMB as you hit the pedal! Wouldn't THAT be great??



There has to be a way to make that work... . *brain churns*



Justin

 

[Hohn]

Maybe you could just wire in a big resistor (big in watts, not ohms) to the pump and drop the voltage down to 8-10V? Maybe this would tame the monster for mild usage until you actually NEEDED the killer delivery?



IT's possible that by the time you mod the tank, buy the pump and regulators and do all this stuff, you could have bought a FASS.



just thinking out loud here.

 

[Froadin]

Wiring in a relay to have the pump work less under normal driving conditions is nothing new for the racing crowd of cars. It only takes a simple trigger to make the relay run full voltage. It could be boost activated, or a simple switch on your throttle pedal/cable.

You can also get a rising rate adjustable pressure regulator, which will allow for higher pressure as your boost climbs. Another thing that is commonly done with gas turbo cars.

 

[Hohn]

I agree, as I have seen it done commonly on a lot of race cars with boost-referencing regulators.



My problem with the boost-ref regulators is that they don't do anything to slow down the pump. So you end up with a lot of return flow.



A lot of controllers are rpm-activiated, which is hard to do with a diesel. I wonder if tapping into the tach signal would feed the controller the info just as if it had been tapped into the ignition on a gasser? Anyway, I was brainstorming more of a continuous controller, like a rheostat, not just an on-off switch.



Still, the microswitch would be better than running the pump WFO all the time.



Justin

 

[Froadin]

RPM isn't really the issue with us, boost pressure is much more relevant to our needs.

You could easily have both pieces as part of the system, and I would think the pressure regulator would help the most with hard-start issues when running the electric pumps.



Of course we are going on a tangent from the subject.

I personally would like to know the total cost of this. Including cam cost, and all the other parts if I was to change to this today. I know I don't need a better cam for my power level, but I would rather want one for the gains I would see in effeciency for EGTs and MPG.



I will also be waiting to see what Bob will be unleashing on us soon I feel lucky that my first LP didn't go out until 75k miles. But I don't have that same confidence in that happening again like that.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Oh yea, did I mention the testing was at night, and the shotgun rider was armed with a flashlight?

Sleddy, you weren't out speed beefing, WAS YA ? I thought you sounded experienced in that... .....

 

[Sled Puller]

Hhehehe! Not THAT time.

Honest, the flashlight was used to read the gauge through the windsheild, it was dark out!

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

this aeromotive pump sounds good but here is a page with the specs from a holley black pump. at 10psi it isn't that far off of the aeromotive pump. http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSFP/f12-815-1chrt.html



chris



i'm not sure if you were directing the hot-rod vp-44 ? at me? but i know steve lost one becuase of low fp. that is the only other one that i have heard anything good or bad about.



jim

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

or for about the same price as the aeromotive you could get this bad boy. http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSFP/f12-706-1chrt.html



jim

 

[Hohn]

The Holley's also a bit cheaper, IIRC.

 

[csutton7]

Jim--more at Keith on the VP44--I know Steve lost more than one and Lenny and there's a couple of more, but maybe some are due to low FP or not being broke in right or ????, but that's the prob you only hear of the ones that have gone south and never about the ones that are living a healthy life---I'm not trying to stir just interested in what's happening or happened to these pumps--nobody posts about them anymore--in fact your post is like the first one in what seems like 2 yrs---



HOHN--I could've bought 3 FASS with my fuel system outlays--but it wasn't available 3-4 yrs ago-you could do it a lot cheaper than I did by not using SS lines and AN fittings and be below the the FASS in cost--the FASS is still pretty new--we've all seen new pumps come on with lots of claims and guys forking over $$ only to see them fail--so the jury is still out on the FASS as far as I'm concerned--the method is proven, but the FASS is a knock off of the method, so time will tell--chris

 

[KLockliear]

What's the question Chris? Failures of the old hot rod VP44's? Ummm, Covalt lost one - electronic failure, not mechanical. Stephan (DTT) lost one - also electronic failure.



Lenny lost one, as did Mike Cary, both mechanical failure with very low mileage. We speculate that the pumps needed more break in time before being romped on or dynoed.



That's all I can think of for failures. 4 out of the 14 we did. Not that great of a track record, but we believe we know why they failed.



There are still several out there running hard. Jim has one that was on our White truck (Marks truck) for a while. Covalt still has one, as do a few guys back East. Can't remember the rest off the top of my head.