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The "Wal-Mart is ruining America" thread

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Pit Bull,



Mighty good point, logic is indeed the buyer's friend. I like your point about Wal-Mart and the multi-level marketing products. Maybe a big company like Wal-Mart has to screen the products they sell more thoroughly. Uh-oh, I hear the thundering hooves of the Amsoil faithful approaching! ha ha ha :p



I have said my piece on the possible differences in products at the warehouse stores vs retail, if any are interested in learning more I recommend a Google search on store of interest and the terms grey market, manufacturer's warranty, product differences, etc.
 
Originally posted by Mike Ellis

Pit Bull,



Mighty good point, logic is indeed the buyer's friend. I like your point about Wal-Mart and the multi-level marketing products. Maybe a big company like Wal-Mart has to screen the products they sell more thoroughly. Uh-oh, I hear the thundering hooves of the Amsoil faithful approaching! ha ha ha :p



I have said my piece on the possible differences in products at the warehouse stores vs retail, if any are interested in learning more I recommend a Google search on store of interest and the terms grey market, manufacturer's warranty, product differences, etc.



Grey maket is any item that is imported into the country without the main manufacturer being involved. I've purchased grey market camera lens (Nikon) and have never had a problem. The only issue I can see with grey market is the warranty. There is a good chance you will not be able to get it warrantied. I really doubt Costco would sell grey market products, but if they did so what? They back up their products with LIFETIME WARRANTY so it is a non issue to me. I purchase Doritos at Costco because I can get a 25oz bag for $3. 99 whereas the grocery stores charge me 3. 99 for a 13 oz bag of the same thing. It is a no brainer to me.
 
One thing i'd like to point out from another perspective. I don't shop at walmart because i do not want to support a compnay that operates the way they do. I acknowledge the fact that they have better prices, are the largest company in the world and that they are for a specific reason.



My wife worked there for a short time and learned of these practices. She has since gone to school and now makes more than i do, which can be aggravating depending on which day it is for me.



Anyhow, there is a thing called ethics in business... . very few large corporations have this, and Walmart for sure doesn't. Money is important to most people, ethics may be as well, but money always seems to prevail. Like i said before, i do not support walmart because of a moral obligation i have in not supporting un-ethical companies. Now in some cases I have no choice in what i buy, say for instance gasoline, and vehicles. The barrier to entry keeps joe schmoe from competing and forces you to use very few companies. However, walmart sells common products that can be found in quite a few other locations. For this matter i do not have to support a deceitful and unethical company like walmart.



It seems this thread has gone down the path of whether or not it is a value to shop there, that is not the problem that i have with walmart. The problem i have is there business practices. Now whether or not that means anything to you is your business, and most everyone will chime in with why they don't care about ethics and want to save that . 32 cents on a toothbrush.



If 32 cents is that important to you then so be it.
 
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Originally posted by rhickman



Anyhow, there is a thing called ethics in business... . very few large corporations have this, and Walmart for sure doesn't. Money is important to most people, ethics may be as well, but money always seems to prevail. Like i said before, i do not support walmart because of a moral obligation i have in not supporting un-ethical companies.




Sounds like you have some inside information that gives you some insight into some business practices that you have determined are unethical. That information makes it impossible to buy from Walmart because not dealing with a unethical company is part of your value equation. I would see that as part of my value equation, problem is getting that information is very difficult. It's easy when you can read about WorldCom - MCI and their cheating along with the Gov't investigation etc. That gives you a reason to no longer use WorldCom - MCI for long distance service. But I have never heard about Walmart, can you fill us in?
 
Wade. . ya missed the point



in the soda mfg's case they were screwing the retailer and there for the public as the cost increase will always go on to the end user aka the consumer.

and in the second case the chip mfg. was asked to build a larger size so the economy of scale could work it's wonderful magic. . more oz. less packaging and marketing per oz=lower price per oz to the consumer... not Mr. Big co forcing anything... they decided not to build it another co of high quality did so the buyers gave #1 the option and THEY chose not to build, co #2 got the business... very simple build what the market demands or die cold hard fact of business.



Mike hope I didn't upset you. . as I was just showing there is a difference in business practice and ethics.



no harm no foul
 
willyslover,



No sweat bud, my hide is thick ;) I enjoy the debates in threads like this, gives me a chance to learn new stuff relatively painlessly :D
 
Double-edged sword

I got your point. I was making the counter-point. Double-edged sword cuts both ways.



Sure, those two examples show where a mega-vendor "worked for" the consumer. But I'll bet if you had a little bit of inside information, you'd find that the mega-store isn't ALWAYS fighting for the consumer. MOF I'll bet you're dealing with two really well-publicized instances that are mostly that just that--PR. ;)
 
NOPE... SOP for Costco



I could go on and on but why bother. . you have your opinion and are welcome to it. .



neither of the examples are common knowledge other than to some of the managers who were around back then... and oh BTW I know a ton of inside info... and your correct not many of the Biggies fight for the consumer, but I know of one that does :)



actually Costco is very highly respected in the world of vendors as they do what they say they will and honor all commitments made. . to a fault... and they pay their bills / invoices on time without asking or demanding as some do for extra long terms.



OK I'm done with this thread as I have worn out my welcome and key board. :-{}
 
We don't have Costco's around here, maybe they are the cat's meow and all that.



Now this is the "I hate Wal-Mart thread". So let's get back to bashing the "gotsa havvit fer da cheepest" store.



My last trip to the local store some 3-4 years ago was, as usual, a flop. They didn't have what I needed and as I exited toward the garden end of the store I grabbed a rubber ball for my dog to play with. Clearly marked on the display was "$x. 97". I carried it to the checkout with cash in hand. The checkout girl looked like she hadn't seen the bed the night before (it was early) and needed 6 more cups of coffee to regain consciousness. The little scanny sticker thing was FUBAR and I told her it was "x. 97" and she called for a "PRICE CHECK".



I said "just keep the damn thing" and vowed NEVER to go back in. Okay so I already had a chip on that shoulder. They just cashed it in that day.



I haven't been back, and won't.
 
Originally posted by WadePatton

I haven't been back, and won't.



Good for you, at least you have some other choices. They typically run everything else out of business, since wall-fart (THE take it back for a refund store) has slowly run everything else out of business we have no other variety type of place to shop.



They know me by sight in the refund dept :-laf
 
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Walmart has a policy that if a product is scanned and a wrong price comes up, they'll refund you $3. 00 if the item costs more than 3. 00. If it costs less than 3. 00, then it is free.



Also, they have 200% guarantee on their brands. Long time ago, I bought some frozen chicken breasts in a bag and it tasted like crap, so I took it back and got a 200% refund.
 
so if I stood around for 15 minutes that morning I could have made a dollar. Hmmm 4 dollars an hour. That's overpay for some of the folks working there.



Dept store meat: But them canned hams you get at Radio Shack are pretty tasty!--and they come with a cell phone!Oo.
 
I would love to have a Costco to shop at. The nearest one is in KC Missouri, 180 miles away. They have 5-6 Costco's in the KC area. Springfield Missouri is the 3rd largest metro area in Missouri with a Population of around 350K people why no Costco??? You can't compete if you don't show-up.
 
Originally posted by WadePatton

so if I stood around for 15 minutes that morning I could have made a dollar. Hmmm 4 dollars an hour. That's overpay for some of the folks working there.



Dept store meat: But them canned hams you get at Radio Shack are pretty tasty!--and they come with a cell phone!Oo.



I'm not advocating that you wait 15 minutes. Just pointing out info. for folks who might want to return items or to keep the retailer honest by making them "pay" for their mistakes.
 
Well you guys, I am going to have to quit rubbernecking this thread for a while. My wife and I are going to wander over to Cody WY, 70 miles one way, have a BBQ lunch and then spend a couple of hours enjoying Walmart. Shopping for groceries, a few vitamins and some auto stuff at the best prices around. Hee Hee
 
Originally posted by merryman

I am a little bothered by the elitist attitude I see in some of the "average American" comments above.



Forgive me if I sound like I'm beating my own drum, I do it only to make a point, but I am entitled to show three sets of initials after my name (I NEVER do), and to use the title "Judge" (which I never do). My wife too has done post grad work in Psychology. While in private practice we rubbed elbows with the social set---lunched with governors and senators, etc;

BUT I am NOT offended by the average American nor do I object to shopping with him/her; "they" may be rough around the edges, but it is the individual character that counts.

When rubbing elbows the the wealthy and prominent, I found any number of them to be, at the core, scumbags; at the same time I have known numerous of the uneducated, unpolished and really rough looking who were basically "salt of the earth".

I think we should judge others by who they are, not how they look.

Heck, I'll bet Hillary puts up a great front, but I'll most likely prefer the "mouth breather" at WalMart------where, by the way, I do shop, trying real hard to avoid buying anything stamped "made in China".

Sorry to sound so hollier than thou, but this sort of thing bothers me.

Vaughn



Wise words from a man we all respect. I agree with all you say, Vaughn-- my faith is just weakening. When I see us obsessed by "getting our fair share", I lose faith. When I see how lazy some of us are in respect to our ancestors, I lose faith. I believe that we, as Americans, have lost a lot of what we used to have-- common courtesy, civility, respect for others, and respect for authority and the rule of law.



So, in many ways, Wal-Mart perplexes me. On one hand, they stand for decency with their laudable decision not to carry certain kinds of magazines. On the other hand, they put Mom and Pop up the river. On one hand, they treat their employees very well, on the other they are nearly abusive to them.



Who to believe? My brother and sister both work for or with Wallymart. She was once in charge of all tobacco ordering for Sam's Club. He is a cashier. Now she works for a vendor selling to Wally-- and life is very different indeed. My bro transfers from one wally location to another every year when college classes begin-- they let him keep his job, and work WITH him for flexible scheduling. She is struggling to make ends meet, since wally decided the vendor had to cut prices or else-- thus her hours are cut in half. At least she has a job- for now.



For the most part, though, I dislike being in Wal-mart. When i calculate simple sales tax in my head, they look at me like i am some kind of genius (that's right, 8% of $7 is $0. 56-- bring on MENSA). That ought not be.



When I go to their restrooms, they are filthy and riddled with graffiti. The aisles are a mess- and crowded. Things from the other side of the store are clearly out of place. Floors are stained. Kids running all over, out of control.



So I guess my main gripe with wally is the people that go there-- the people that trash the place, let their kids run haywire, destroy the bathrroms, don't put back things where they should be, etc. etc.



The above is evidence of a lot that troubles me-- laziness, disrespect, immaturity, poor parenting, you name it. That's why I think i see wal-mart as an embodiment of everything wrong with the heartland.



I don't see this as rought around the edges so much. i think it is more likely a loss of saltiness in the "salt of the earth"



By and large, the wally patrons are the kind of people I wish there were more of-- God-fearing simple Americans that know right and wrong, have common sense, and work hard for little money.



But I fear these people are a dying breed. I hope and pray that I am very very wrong... .
 
I was going to stay off this subject, but I know some facts I wanted to share with you.

Wal-Mart IS ruining America.

We have a family forklift business and I do on-site service and repairs on forklifts at manufacturing plants and warehouses. One of our customers was General Time Corporation in Athens, Ga. They made Westclox alarm clocks (the electric plug-in type and the wind-up Big Ben) and Seth Thomas wall clocks (Battery and plug in electric) as well as wrist watches and coo-coo clocks... all MADE IN USA.

They began selling their products to Wal-Mart, which, as expected, caused them the need to step up production. Additional manufacturing facilities were set up and additional employees hired. All was well at that time until Wal-Mart told them "We are only going to pay you "xxx" amount for the same product that we were paying "xxxx" amount for... do it or we will not buy the product. " Through cutbacks, restructuring, etc. the company was able to hang on for a while, until Wal-Mart did it again and this time said "Build your product for this price, which is what we can get it from China for, or we'll buy it from China. " Of course, General Time, which was known for QUALITY Made in USA products could not compete with the cheap Chinese prices, so they lost the manufacturing deal with Wal-Mart. It was a blow the relatively small company could not take, especially after only recently gearing up to meet Wal-Mart's demands. Instead of offering the consumer a choice between a quality Made in USA product and a cheap import for the "price pincher crowd", Wal Mart chose to offer ONLY the cheap import.

Through Wal-mart's mega business GREED, another quality AMERICAN company was forced out of business. This is just one local example I know of. I am sure there are even larger scale cases in bigger cities in this country.

As someone who always tries to BUY AMERICAN, it makes me SICK to see this sort of thing happen. Try to find a MADE IN USA alarm clock, wristwatch, wall clock, or ANYTHING electronic for that matter... .

All I can say is IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY, BUY MADE IN USA!



One more note about the quality of goods sold in these "discount" places: Many manufacturers offer two (or more)versions of the same product... The "chaeper" version is what is usually sold in the "discount" type store and is often imported, but sold under the same "brand". The higher quality (and therefore higher price) version is what is generally sold in "specialty" or "mom and pop" type stores. Just a few examples I know of: Boots and shoes, Jeans, power tools, kitchen appliances, even plumbing and electrical and household appliances. One of the latest (and most DISGUSTING discoveries I made was when I noticed Sam's Club was now carrying a Hunter ceiling fan... of course, I soon discovered why when I flipped the box over and saw what ought to be the Wal-Mart/Sam's LOGO--- "MADE IN CHINA".

Sam Walton's old slogan of "We buy American when we can so you can too. " passed on when he did...

Wal-Mart is definately ruining this country.
 
Originally posted by Dieselnut59



Wal-Mart is definately ruining this country.
I agree Wal-Mart's practices are less than honorable but isn't it the people who buy their crap there the ones to blame for ruin?

They've just found their niche and it's working well.



No Wal-Mart for me, too far away



Read an interesting article recently about how cheap Chinese labor is causing unemployment in Mexico, India, Pakistan and many other countries to the tune of tens of millions out of work. All the while wages, working conditions and safety are going down in China. Guess the assumption that world trade was going to bring the quality of life to an equal all across the globe isn't really true.
 
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