thinking about having a ATS Stage IV installed

[dsather]

Bhale

This is great info you posted. I'm doing research also for a future purchase.

How does the controller work for lockup in second gear? Do you have to have the lever in the 2 position or does the controller simply lock the converter at whatever speed you have it set for irregardless of what gear you are in (except first)?

I was also under the impression that the controller allowed for locked downshifts between OD and 3rd. You explained that it will actually unlock the converter after the trans makes the shift? Sounds wierd.

Also, can you rate the stator compared with stock. I can't believe how loose my stock stator is. Lockup aside, how do you like the converter?



Thanks for the info

 

[Bhale]

The controller activates lockup depending on speed, not which gear. The lowest speed is about 20 mph so I think I can get lockup in first gear if my foot stays on floor. This isn't something I’ve tried yet but I will. Up shifts while locked up feel about as natural as you could wish for, not harsh but firm and solid.



As for the downshifts when locked, yes it will downshift from OD to 3rd but I have to put my foot all the way to the floor to make it happen. When it does this shift, it's a very solid shift and it doesn't feel like it's doing any damage, which I expected it to. I'm not sure but there may be some linkage adjustments that could change the WOT requirement for OD to 3rd shifts. It doesn't bother me and I like everything about how the transmission performs so I’ll leave it as is.



When I’m in OD with the TC locked, if I turn OD off the TC will unlock for a second or two but only long enough for the transmission to shift. Does that make sense? Any time I use the OD switch on the dash, the controller unlocks the TC for a second.



I should add here that when the controller is going into TC lock up (at whatever speed I’ve set it at), a bright LED comes on and I hear a faint click from the controller box, like an electronic switch, and then a second or so later I feel the TC lock up. This time delay is the same delay I get when I turn OD off with the TC locked up. At first I didn’t like the delay but now I find it quite natural and it’s almost like an advanced warning that something is going happen and I have enough time to change the setting or ease up on the pedal if I don’t want to loose any rubber. (WOT)



Compared to stock? Sorry, no comparison at all. Next time your out and about find a stop light on a slight up hill grade. When the light turns green, take your foot off the brake, don’t touch the go pedal and notice what happens. Either you’ll sit where you stopped or creep backwards. Sound accurate? Doing the same thing with the ATS TC you’ll actually begin to move forward and be able to idle up to 15-20 mph! It’ll actually shift into second gear without touching the pedal. Now this doesn’t happen fast, it takes 10-15 seconds but the fact that it happens was really cool at first and I had to change my driving habits somewhat in parking lots and such. It’s similar to driving a gasser. At higher speeds it feels like I have better power transfer without the TC being locked up. No numbers to prove anything here, it just feels like I’m putting more power to the ground and this is especially noticeable with a load. Pulling away from stoplights with a load I don’t need to put the pedal ¾ of the way to the floor to get the truck to move. In fact, I only need a bit more pedal loaded than I need unloaded. (I’m referring to just normal take offs, not trying to beat the Asian atrocity in the next lane with a 10K+ loaded truck)



Does this answer your questions?



Brian

 

[Dbonnecarrere]

Bhale;

I have been seriously researching upgrade options for the 47RE

even before trading in my 98. 4 5speed (I'm gonna miss that 5

speed when we're in the mountains). Now have an '01 auto and

the two top dogs seem to be DTT and ATS. As I discussed with

a very helpful ATS tech there seems to be two schools of thought

between these two companies, with DTT emphasizing torque

converter efficiency and ATS emphasizing better lockup clutch and

more use of it. It also seems that there is some overlap in the

opinions of the two competitors. So I would love to hear as much

information from the horse's mouth (end users) as possible about

how the products perform and the customer satisfaction. I'll

probably never tow more than about 12 grand while I own this

truck but I'd like to have the most efficient and dependable

transmission of torque to road as I can get. So here's my questions.

1. During the unlocked 1st and 2nd gear cycle, WOT, is there a

marked improvement in power transfer over stock TC?

2. Can the 2nd gear lockup be set up to happen without having

to shift the lever into 2nd?

3. Is the 47RE inherently strong enough (with ATS upgrade) to

hold up under moderate towing with moderate power increase,

say 275 to 300 hp and associated torque? Moderate towing

meaning up to 12,000#. I have always questioned just how

much power input these optimized 47RE's can take, and

survive, while towing. After all, these are small transmissions

when compared to the Ford E4OD and really small compared

to the Allison 1000 series.

Thanks

 

[phoekema]

answer to 3 questions

1. Yes, even in non-lockup mode (fluid coupling mode) the performance of the ATS converter is much much better than stock and there is far less loss in slippage and heat.

2. I have the ATS converter and valve body but I do not have the controller in my truck, only the 'mystery switch'. So with that setup, the only way I can get the 2nd gear (or 1st gear) lockup is by using the switch. I can't answer for those with the controller.

3. I have over 300 hp and am pulling close to 14,000 pounds in a 34' fifth wheel with 3 slides. I don't 'get on it' more that I need to, but it seems to be holding up just fine so far. I would guess I have put on about 10,000 miles since I installed the ATS converter and valve body. I have stated this several times and still strongly believe conservative, common sense driving habits and good maintenance procedures will go a long way towards increasing the life of your drive train.



Paul H

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

What people are missing in the either lockup or nonlockup is drivability with the automatic. The automatic has 4 gears/speeds with large gaps between the gears. If you operate with lockup only, you will notice the gap and lug the engine when shifting up to the higher gears. The torque converter has been described as an additional 1/2 gear when operated in the non lockup mode.



I intentionally operate my transmission in nonlockup 3rd below 50 mph towing to keep the rpms up. I obtained advice from DTT on adjusting the gov selonoid voltage and the TPS to obtain better downshifting from 3rd lockup to 3rd unlocked for better drivability. I was irritated with constant manual unlocking by tapping the brake pedal or double clicking the OD switch to unlock the TC clutch to negotiate hairpin curves at 30-40 mph.



Don't avoid a unlocked TC, use it as another gear. Remember, another name for torque converter is torque multiplier (higher torque out with lower rpm out).

 

[BLee]

I have 4 months and 4M miles on my ATS T/C, VB, Smartcontroller, and DD transmission pan. It works just like the responses above say it will. It was installed locally by a shop recommended by ATS, and I'm very satisfied with the setup. The rest of the story that hasn't been mentioned much is how much you'll like driving your truck with a good e-brake. I love the way the truck pulls away from a dead stop with just a touch on the gas pedal, and the sound and deceleration that PacBrake produces is a hoot. I would buy mine again. My engine is bone stock. I tow a 3 slideout 38' fifth wheel camper. There has been one time when I pulled the gear selector into first, ran the truck up to about 20mph, locked the T/C in first and went up a serious hill at 2900 rpm's. It climbed up it like a monkey. I wonder what the u-joints were thinking. I don't think the engine/transmission temps even noticed. Bill

 

[dsather]

Bhale

Does the torque converter controller react differently to you running along at say 55 and applying full throttle which would down shift the trans to 3rd, or applying less than full throttle at the same speed and manually taking it out of OD? In other words, is the controller unlocking the converter when you downshift using the OD button but not when you simply let the kick down linkage do the downshift?



I noticed that several people have the Converter, VB, and controller, and are running injectors and an Edge Comp. Do you tow in overdrive? The ATS ad at their site recommends their updated trans for towing in OD with over a certain amount of power. Any problems?



Excellent info, thanks

Dennis

 

[phoekema]

towing in OD

I tow in OD most of the time without the upgraded transmission (only converter & valve body) and it is working fine. From what I remember, Don told me their valve body increases the oil flow somewhat for the OD section.



Once again, the main thing is use common sense. If you are rolling along on a relatively level road and the engine is not straining at 55-60, leave it there. But if you are pulling up a pretty good hill, give the engine and transmission a break - shift down into 3rd. With a little experience you can hear and/or feel when to shift out of OD.

 

[Bhale]

Yes, the TC remains locked up during the WOT downshift from OD to 3rd but downshifting from OD to 3rd using the switch causes the TC to unlock briefly. The WOT downshift feels very natural, by that I mean it's not harsh. Like I said, it may be a linkage adjustment to get it to downshift at WOT before the pedal hits the floor. It's just the when I’m hauling I try not to stress things any more than needed. I plan on getting another 7-9 years out of this truck and then buy a new one before I retire.



As far as towing in OD, yes, I do it whenever possible. Mostly i watch the EGT's and when I see them begin to climb at a good rate, i know it's time to let the engine breathe some and take it out of OD. With a load, i keep the rpm's at least at 1600 or more.



Unloaded, everything changes. The engine has enough power that even if I know I should be out of OD, it's only a couple seconds before the rpm's come up and the EGT's drop. Keep in mind that I never put the pedal to the floor unless the rpm's are above ~1500. There's really no need to IMHO. Some may have other opinions but.....







2. Can the 2nd gear lockup be set up to happen without having to shift the lever into 2nd?



Yes. Since the controller activates lockup according to speed (mph) you can have lockup in second and during the up shift to 3rd and OD. The drawback is that when you set lockup at slow speeds, say 20-30 mph, the TC will remain locked up until you drop below that speed. So, when I slow down for a stop, the TC stays locked up but the transmission won't downshift by it's self and the engine will stall. Just like not putting the clutch in in a manual.



3. Is the 47RE inherently strong enough (with ATS upgrade) to

hold up under moderate towing with moderate power increase,

say 275 to 300 hp and associated torque?



I can't say for sure just how strong these tyrannies are and how much power/abuse they'll take. My gut feeling is that at ~300hp the ATS built transmission should handle it without problems. It really depends on your driving habits and how had your abuse it. I'm sure you could kill any transmission with less hp if you tried but for sensible towing/hauling I believe they can handle it. You best bet for that kind of question is to talk to Don or Clint at ATS and get their input. I've never even seen the guts of one of these things.



Brian

 

[rrausch]

I have.

I followed my trans though the re-building process at ATS in Wheat Ridge.

They heat-treat, re-engineer or cyrogenically treat all the marginal parts on the 47RH & 47RE transmissions. Here is the link to the thread I posted when I came back from there.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...?threadid=40441&highlight=experience+with+ATS

 

[Steve Roseman]

Originally posted by Boldt's Wagon

What people are missing in the either lockup or nonlockup is drivability with the automatic. The automatic has 4 gears/speeds with large gaps between the gears. If you operate with lockup only, you will notice the gap and lug the engine when shifting up to the higher gears. The torque converter has been described as an additional 1/2 gear when operated in the non lockup mode.

Exactly what I was trying to say

Kind of like the old song "Torn between two lovers"... lol. I love the idea of a tough lockup clutch but want efficiency in non-lockup for that extra gear.

I currently have my transmission temp sending unit in the pan so I get nervous towing out of lockup. I don't know what my temps are running coming out of the converter. Any input?

 

[StakeMan]

How do you know the efficiency of the ATS TC in fluid coupling?