Thinking of a new Truck

[jryan11518]

Are they taking orders for 2012 now? Dealer did a search for 2011 Mega Cab with 4:10 and said none available. He said they can order 2012 probably take 8-11 weeks. Does this sound correct?

 

[HBarlow]

Are they taking orders for 2012 now? Dealer did a search for 2011 Mega Cab with 4:10 and said none available. He said they can order 2012 probably take 8-11 weeks. Does this sound correct?

Order time depends on supply and demand factors. The wait is worth it to me regardless how long it takes.

I've ordered my vehicles for years. I know a lot more about the trucks and certainly about my intended use than any sales manager so I want my truck (or car) equipped my way not the way they happen to be available on a dealer's lot.

You might actually get your new truck sooner than predicted.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks Harvey. That is exactly the info that I was looking for. I drove the auto in an 11 cc and loved it; I've just always been a manual transmission guy. I am a little worried about backing trailers with an auto, but it looks like a lot of commercial haulers are switching to it. I've read a lot of other forums and have yet to read anything negative about the Aisin.

I haven't driven a new MOPAR six speed automatic other than a brief test drive years ago but I can tell you the Aisin has a tight torque converter and low gearing in first and reverse for backing or starting a heavy trailer on a hill. The Aisin doesn't heat the transmission fluid regardless what I'm doing with it.

You won't be disappointed if you decide on an automatic.

 

[Wertles]

If you don't need the truck right now, wait the 10-12 weeks for the truck you want. There is nothing more annoying than spending the next 5+ years hating the color, radio, lack of back up camera etc. I was going to order a new Max Tow Ram when they announced it back in February because that is really the minimum truck that I need to tow the trailer I have. I couldn't get it and couldn't wait for it so I decided to mod my current truck. I would NOT have been happy with the current 3500 pick up knowing that the one I really wanted was just a few months away. When this new truck becomes available, I believe it won't be too long before I order one. I might wait a little longer to see if the 5500 Long Haul becomes a reality because THAT is the truck I really want. The day that goes on sale will be the day I place an order.

 

[AMerrill]

The wife and I took a New 2500 truck for a drive the other day with the 68RFE in it and I was impressed with it I was thinking of the 373 gears not 410 because I only haul once in a well. I didn't know that the 410 gear and the 373 shifts where so close to each other. But I have a hard time see myself also with a auto but I love the interior of the new one. still trying to pick the color I want deep water blue or Mineral gray that is what I'm facing.

 

[THess]

I like everything about the cab an chassis; all i want is the ST package with air,power doors and windows, and some other add ons. Steve White Motors in Hickory has exactly the truck I want at a VERY reasonable price. I've been happy with my 98 but we now need 4 doors(1 kid in a carseat and another on the way). Everyone talks about all the hype of 800 lb ft of torque on the Max Tow but I've got along fine with an underpowered truck for years and its always been enough power for me. I think the c and c has 605 foot pound so thats quite an upgrade for me; I like the reduced power and the promise of longevity and maybe better economy. I'm not entirely sure if the Max Tow really gets all that power on the ground anyway. I wish one of the big 3 would build an engine for a full size truck that had the power of 10-15 years ago but would actually crack 15 mpg; I think they would have a great sales base to tap. Anyone else agree with me?

 

[AMerrill]

I like the CC also but just not the DEF that has to be on them. The pickups don't have the DEF on them. I was going to go that direction but I don't want to have to buy that stuff every time I fill up.

 

[RVTRKN]

For you members that want the C&C, check with your State DMV for the difference in registration, for costs as well as type of vehicle. It matters here in California and I found out the hard way. Even the Dodge dealer got it wrong when they first registered it as new in 07. Lucky for me they kept the weight certificate, and I didn't have to have it weighed again. It costs me a couple of hundred more a year, because California treats it like a true commercial vehicle, not just having to putt commercial plates on it. I'm even supposed to go through the scales with it, if I follow the law as it is written. I ignore the scales and have not been pulled over yet, but ya never know.

When I went to increase the weight fees to 26K, is when DMV caught the mistake, and I had to go through thier inspection process and red tape as if I were buying it used with no plates. It took a couple of days to complete my registration, if I hadn't *****ed at my dealer for the mess, I wouldn't of known about the weight cert they kept on it.

 

[rscurtis]

I like the CC also but just not the DEF that has to be on them. The pickups don't have the DEF on them. I was going to go that direction but I don't want to have to buy that stuff every time I fill up.

You may want to re-visit that statement. The DEF tank is designed to be refilled at every oil change, not every fill-up. It leaves you with a better running engine than the PU with its adsorber catalyst and fuel dilution of the oil. It is the way to go. Right now, Dodge pickups and International are the only hold-outs.

 

[HBarlow]

I like everything about the cab an chassis; all i want is the ST package with air,power doors and windows, and some other add ons. Steve White Motors in Hickory has exactly the truck I want at a VERY reasonable price. I've been happy with my 98 but we now need 4 doors(1 kid in a carseat and another on the way). Everyone talks about all the hype of 800 lb ft of torque on the Max Tow but I've got along fine with an underpowered truck for years and its always been enough power for me. I think the c and c has 605 foot pound so thats quite an upgrade for me; I like the reduced power and the promise of longevity and maybe better economy. I'm not entirely sure if the Max Tow really gets all that power on the ground anyway. I wish one of the big 3 would build an engine for a full size truck that had the power of 10-15 years ago but would actually crack 15 mpg; I think they would have a great sales base to tap. Anyone else agree with me?

Yes, I agree with you. I have been very pleased with my cab and chassis rated at 305hp and 610 tq. The 800 ft. lb. engine is mostly about bragging rights and meaningless to me. One of the greatest advantages of the C&C is its ability to avoid dealers. C&Cs don't have smog issues that require dealer EGR and turbo cleaning or replacement.

 

[HBarlow]

You may want to re-visit that statement. The DEF tank is designed to be refilled at every oil change, not every fill-up. It leaves you with a better running engine than the PU with its adsorber catalyst and fuel dilution of the oil. It is the way to go. Right now, Dodge pickups and International are the only hold-outs.

Good point and good explanation.

Adding DEF every few thousand miles is a small annoyance compared to the soot issues some of the pickups experience.

 

[RonD]

Ford and GM drivers are talking about 1 gal per 1000 miles, the tanks are about 7 gal, so that isn't a problem, what is a problem is a complete new system added to the truck, a tank, a pump, several sensors, a bunch of DEF Injectors on the exhaust system, 3 or up to 5 of them, more hoses, more wiring if the system fails, the truck stops running, that is why I am buying a 2012 before the future requirements and mandates take the Diesel experience ever farther down the black hole, I see nothing wrong with the current system, just like my current Dodge, my 2012 will be used 95% of the time with a 14000 pound 5er hooked on the back, I don't expect any emissions problems, sooting or anything with the Cummins engine, I have a Grocery Getter in the garage, its called a Toyota FJ, it does that job just fine.

 

[HBarlow]

I agree with your thinking. A new '12 used extensively for heavy towing should give a lifetime of reliable service.

I would not volunteer to have the DEF tank, hardware, and software added to my truck either but apparently to allow the Cab and Chassis trucks to meet '12 emissions specs while retaining the ability to be used in city commercial service like hauling a plumber's service body around day after day, year after year, without soot issues they use the reduced emission control system of a C&C truck but add on the SCR (DEF) system to clean it up a little more.

My understanding of the system, aided significantly by the recent instruction by TDR member RCurtis, is that the pickup system uses more severe emission control equipment than the C&C but if used for towing like you plan should be a great truck.

 

[rscurtis]

The two vehicles- PU and C&C- are now in the same emission class. The difference is that the PU met Jan. 1 2010 standards three years ahead of schedule, which was before the Punishment Agency approved the use of urea and SCR. Dodge went through the learning curve with the attendant problems. Ford and GMC were still at the 2007 standards until 2010, and they went with SCR. Ram is now using the adsorber catalyst (and lack of DEF) as a selling point, as is International. They're trying to sell a liability as an asset. To me, it's the same thing as saying in the early nineties, "my truck still has a carburetor while everyone else has gone to fuel injection". The Europeans, who are typically years ahead of the US in energy technology, jumped on SCR as soon as it was available. Through second hand information, I also understand that the SCR system is working great on OTR trucks- much better than the heavy EGR of the past.



As far as 2012 standards are concerned, there aren't any. Emissions are at basically zero now. The only future standards will be regarding CO2 emissions, which is a fancy way of saying increased fuel economy.



To those who are concerned about the cost of DEF, think about the almost $60-100 worth of oil you're throwing away every 3000 miles because of fuel dilution and soot contamination.

 

[domehead]

The DEF system will increase your MPG were the other system has reduced the over all MPG the cost for 2. 5 gallons of DEF is about $12. 50 or $25 to fill the tank which last about 5,000 miles. If you buy it from the dealer it should run about $19.

 

[HBarlow]

The two vehicles- PU and C&C- are now in the same emission class. The difference is that the PU met Jan. 1 2010 standards three years ahead of schedule, which was before the Punishment Agency approved the use of urea and SCR. Dodge went through the learning curve with the attendant problems. Ford and GMC were still at the 2007 standards until 2010, and they went with SCR. Ram is now using the adsorber catalyst (and lack of DEF) as a selling point, as is International. They're trying to sell a liability as an asset. To me, it's the same thing as saying in the early nineties, "my truck still has a carburetor while everyone else has gone to fuel injection". The Europeans, who are typically years ahead of the US in energy technology, jumped on SCR as soon as it was available. Through second hand information, I also understand that the SCR system is working great on OTR trucks- much better than the heavy EGR of the past.

As far as 2012 standards are concerned, there aren't any. Emissions are at basically zero now. The only future standards will be regarding CO2 emissions, which is a fancy way of saying increased fuel economy.

To those who are concerned about the cost of DEF, think about the almost $60-100 worth of oil you're throwing away every 3000 miles because of fuel dilution and soot contamination.

Okay, I'm listening.

I was thinking (incorrectly) a new EPA standard had become required recently.

Did Ram begin using DEF for MY10? I was thinking DEF was just offered on '11 C&C trucks.

Does DEF provide improved fuel economy as Don (Domehead) posted? How? Is it accomplished by reducing EGR?

 

[RonD]

From all the reading, and talking to people that own these new trucks, my opinion so far is as a vehicle towing a 5 th wheel, like I do, the MPG on all three will be about the same, 10-12.

 

[domehead]

Harvey,



I found this on the pickup truck site. What I have seen personal between the RAM and the one I have now and driving the same routes the present truck has a better MPG. Some of it is due in part to different gear ratios. But at the same time there has been other threads and people voice the concern of the drop in MPG compares to their older trucks.



Update 1: 2010 HD Fuel Economy Test - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports

 

[AfterBurner]

Okay, I'm listening.



I was thinking (incorrectly) a new EPA standard had become required recently.



Did Ram begin using DEF for MY10? I was thinking DEF was just offered on '11 C&C trucks.



Does DEF provide improved fuel economy as Don (Domehead) posted? How? Is it accomplished by reducing EGR?

DEF came on the '10 models as well as '11. the C&C engines are tested differently for emissions. Not sure if the standards are different, but the duty cycle for the test is different. IIRC, the p/u is tested in the vehicle, where C&C is tested on an engine dyno.



If someone knows more please chime in.

 

[HBarlow]

I guess I've come to class late on emissions crap. Haven't been interested and haven't paid much attention.

Initially I thought DEF allowed the manufacturers to eliminate EGR and/or DPF and thought that might be a good trade but now I understand that it is in addition to existing junk.

So far I'm completely satisfied with my '08 C&C which has as little interest in DEF as I do. It has been troublefree and has only 106k miles. It will probably remain with me for many more years.

With current high diesel fuel prices I'm not pulling my fifthwheel and rarely drive the truck now. I do all my routine local travel and all my pleasure trips on something that delivers around 40 mpg.