Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) thinking of selling my 24v and going with a 12 v truck

[VHolloway]

it may be time to call it a day and sell my truck

the engine runs great but the transmission dripping transmission fluid it needs transmission work we have put 10 to 15 k in parts in it to keeping it going

and we never hot roded the truck so i just dont get it

one thing after another with this truck new this new that we have had the truck 4 years



DO THE GUYS WITH 12V HAVE ALL FUEL PUMP BS#@$%!

I hear storys of guys with 200k miles and never had a problem

 

[Grizzly]

I'm not sure what year truck you have? Is it a 99? If so why not upgrade to a 3rd gen. An 05 and 06 are great trucks, but get it with a 6 speed manual transmission.

 

[HBarlow]

I had an '01 HO/6 speed that was very reliable and nearly maintenance free for 325k miles.

Early 12 valves have no magic. If you buy a 12 valve and operate it in the same environment with the same service and drive cycle you'll have similar problems.

12 valve automatic transmissions were certainly not better than 24 valve automatic transmissions. The five speed manuals were weak and fragile, nowhere near as good as the NV-5600 6 speeds.

If your problems are related to transfer pumps and injection pumps you are using dirty fuel and not changing the fuel filters according to schedule. The injection pump and transfer pumps on my '01 gave good service.

 

[GaryOwen]

I have 299k miles on my 95 with no fuel system failures. Did have to replace the rubber lines once though. Still on original pumps and injectors.



Steering is better on third gen's -trannies too. Had my 95 auto rebuilt at about 160k and it is getting near rebuild time again. Suspension about the same on all models - not real good IMO. Parts are getting harder to find on the older trucks and rubber parts are deteriorating.



Are you sure the trannie itself is leaking? There have been a lot of leaks in transmission lines. I had one rub on the frame and develop a leak - sent trannie fluid all along the underneath.



Considering how much you have invested in the truck, I would probably lean toward keeping it instead of getting another truck that may also have problems. It's a real toss up as to which generation of truck is better. Good luck with your decision.

 

[CPavlic]

If your problems are related to transfer pumps and injection pumps you are using dirty fuel and not changing the fuel filters according to schedule.

Not necessarily, the original design of the block mounted transfer pump was a poor design, hence the reason the pumps were relocated to the tank starting in 05. Unlike the cp3 on the common rail, when the transfer pump dies on the 24 valve, the vp44 continues to pull fuel from the tank, damaging itself. Unless you have a fuel pressure gauge or little red light, you have no clue until some damage is done. Sometimes causing the vp44 to completely quit. This can be solved with a good after market transfer pump and fuel pressure gauge to be able to constantly monitor pressure to the vp44

 

[Bloomy]

12 valve automatic transmissions were certainly not better than 24 valve automatic transmissions. The five speed manuals were weak and fragile, nowhere near as good as the NV-5600 6 speeds.


The NV 4500 wasn't exactly week or fragile. Certainly people did break them as did many 5600's. My 95 had 215k, moderate power increases, 4-8 sledpulls a year and near constant towing. I replaced a number of clutches until I installed the appropriate size DD. With that being said the two concerns were the small input shaft (that I did replace to get the bigger clutches) and losing fifth gear because the nut fell off. Never had to fix the 5th gear nut. Lucky maybe. Both easy fixes, to me anyway.

As mentioned, though parts are becoming harder to find. The trucks are hitting 15 years of age and abuse. I entertained selling my 06 to find a 12v, but the difference of what I owe to what the 12v's are selling for wasn't large enough for me to seriously entertain. The 12v's are great, and a lot of fun to drive and modify.

You generally speaking wouldn't have to worry about the fuel delivery system or engine on a 12v. Everything is mechanical. The auto transmission's are something to stay away from as well. The rest of the truck would of course be the same as what you have. Most notably bad front ends.

Thomas

 

[HBarlow]

Not necessarily, the original design of the block mounted transfer pump was a poor design, hence the reason the pumps were relocated to the tank starting in 05. Unlike the cp3 on the common rail, when the transfer pump dies on the 24 valve, the vp44 continues to pull fuel from the tank, damaging itself. Unless you have a fuel pressure gauge or little red light, you have no clue until some damage is done. Sometimes causing the vp44 to completely quit. This can be solved with a good after market transfer pump and fuel pressure gauge to be able to constantly monitor pressure to the vp44

My experience was very different. I put 325,000 miles on an '01 HO/six speed dually with few problems with the fuel system and no fuel pressure gauge or fancy aftermarket filter systems.

The OEM fuel transfer pump failed when the truck had 60k miles. I was 1/4 mile from the local Dodge dealer when it stumbled on acceleration in third or fourth gear. I drove straight into the dealer and the lift pump was replaced under warranty. I had my Dodge mechanic buddy replace the second lift pump while it still worked fine at somewhere around 150k to 200k miles. The second one is still on the truck now with 350+ miles on the odometer.

My mechanic buddy and I misdiagnosed a Jacobs Exhaust Brake that was sticking closed and reopening slowly after use. It caused a slight stumble on off-idle acceleration. We jumped in the wrong direction and installed a Cummins rebuilt injection pump at around 130k to 150k miles. When we realized we screwed up I resold the OEM injection pump to a guy who needed one for half price. Injection pump number two is still in the truck now with, as I wrote above, 350K+ miles on the odometer.

I never saw the need for a fuel pressure gauge or any other aftermarket parts. My fuel system was and still is very reliable.

Likewise, I never saw any need for an aftermarket gauge or filter system on the '06 I previously owned.

I'm not as fascinated with aftermarket accessories as some and have more confidence in Cummins engineers as well.

 

[HBarlow]

12 valve automatic transmissions were certainly not better than 24 valve automatic transmissions. The five speed manuals were weak and fragile, nowhere near as good as the NV-5600 6 speeds.


The NV 4500 wasn't exactly week or fragile. Certainly people did break them as did many 5600's. My 95 had 215k, moderate power increases, 4-8 sledpulls a year and near constant towing. I replaced a number of clutches until I installed the appropriate size DD. With that being said the two concerns were the small input shaft (that I did replace to get the bigger clutches) and losing fifth gear because the nut fell off. Never had to fix the 5th gear nut. Lucky maybe. Both easy fixes, to me anyway.

As mentioned, though parts are becoming harder to find. The trucks are hitting 15 years of age and abuse. I entertained selling my 06 to find a 12v, but the difference of what I owe to what the 12v's are selling for wasn't large enough for me to seriously entertain. The 12v's are great, and a lot of fun to drive and modify.

You generally speaking wouldn't have to worry about the fuel delivery system or engine on a 12v. Everything is mechanical. The auto transmission's are something to stay away from as well. The rest of the truck would of course be the same as what you have. Most notably bad front ends.

Thomas

My friend, fellow TDR member and fellow RV transporter with 700k miles on his '97 Ram has had so many rebuilt/replacement NV-4500s in his Dodge he is on a first name basis with Standard Transmission in Ft. Worth and almost needs wing nuts on his bell housing bolts.

He told me just a couple weeks ago that he wishes he had replaced the five speed with a NV-5600 years ago to avoid all the breakdowns and labor replacing and rebuilding transmissions. He is presently converting his five speed to G-56 six speed.

 

[DCreed]

it may be time to call it a day and sell my truck

the engine runs great but the transmission dripping transmission fluid it needs transmission work we have put 10 to 15 k in parts in it to keeping it going

and we never hot roded the truck so i just dont get it

one thing after another with this truck new this new that we have had the truck 4 years



DO THE GUYS WITH 12V HAVE ALL FUEL PUMP BS#@$%!

I hear storys of guys with 200k miles and never had a problem

A full billet trans would run less than $7k installed and live happily for many years.

Can you be specific? what fuel problems? Most have put a good pump near the tank and had no further issues.

Is your truck a "53" block? that would be a reason to question the investment. Other than that, you could swap a Ppump into your truck if you feel the pump is the problem, but you said the engine runs great so... ??

 

[Grumpy John 4x4]

12 Valve

206,000 miles on mine no major problems of course its around 500 hp as i added mods i did the trans first suncoast 7,500 installed custom built by suncoast and shipped to cali and installed by inglewood trans in fullerton ca

 

[CPavlic]

My experience was very different. I put 325,000 miles on an '01 HO/six speed dually with few problems with the fuel system and no fuel pressure gauge or fancy aftermarket filter systems.



I never saw the need for a fuel pressure gauge or any other aftermarket parts. My fuel system was and still is very reliable.



Likewise, I never saw any need for an aftermarket gauge or filter system on the '06 I previously owned.



I'm not as fascinated with aftermarket accessories as some and have more confidence in Cummins engineers as well.

Well Mr. Barlow, Im happy that you have had very good luck with your stock fuel system. Its nice to have a very reputable vehicle live up to its expectations. But, I think you would find that many people have not had near as good as luck as you, and its not always from anything the owner of the truck does or doesnt do. Ask any of the other Mopar techs in this register and more than likely all will agree that a fuel pressure gauge is a very good idea on a vp44 truck. As for having confidence in Cummins, the block mounted transfer pump Im pretty sure was not their design but Chryslers. I could be wrong though

 

[DCreed]

Well Mr. Barlow, Im happy that you have had very good luck with your stock fuel system. Its nice to have a very reputable vehicle live up to its expectations. But, I think you would find that many people have not had near as good as luck as you, and its not always from anything the owner of the truck does or doesnt do. Ask any of the other Mopar techs in this register and more than likely all will agree that a fuel pressure gauge is a very good idea on a vp44 truck. As for having confidence in Cummins, the block mounted transfer pump Im pretty sure was not their design but Chryslers. I could be wrong though

Cummins. School buses had the same problems! In some cases entire fleets were traded in as lemons it was so bad! :{

 

[HBarlow]

I agree that the block-mounted transfer pump was probably not among Cummins' greatest successes. Mine was fine because I was the only driver and had the benefit of TDR membership so I was aware of the need to pay attention to the first sign of a fuel delivery problem. I am also proactive about truck maintenace never waiting for something to fail if I can help it.

On a school bus driven by housewives or old retired guys who didn't know much about the equipment I can see how a failing transfer pump would be overlooked until the VP-44 failed and the bus quit running.