Thinking of selling.....

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Due to the 4 door coming out in 2003, I'm thinking of selling my truck. It's only got 15,XXX miles on it.

I owe about $10,000 less than NADA on the truck. With that $10k I could almost buy a daily driver in cash, and save money from now until the '03's show up (20 months?).

As you guys can see from my signature, it's totally stock except the silencer ring and the fogs working on high beam. Only thing is, this truck runs great. I hate to sell it and later get a dawg. Or worse yet, the Cummins winding up not available in 2003.

What do you guys think? Has anybody used the TDR classifieds? Can I get pretty good resale out of the thing? Wouldn't you want to drive a Toyota Echo everyday (hehehe..... joke!).

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Y2K 2500 Cummins ETC/DEE, SLT+, 4X4, Quad, LB, Intense Blue Sport, 3. 54 anti-spin, rear aux. springs (camper special), sliding rear window, all options except cab clearance lights including agate leather, totally stock, some ring fell off, whistles louder since & D/C must have screwed up on the wiring cause the fogs stay on with high beam. Since everybody else listed their toys, I will too.
1995 Kawasaki ZX6-R (For Sale)
1990 Toyota Celica
1983 Mazda RX-7 GSL (For sale)

 

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In an attempt to reduce my debt I placed my Ram in the local paper, TDR classifieds and other on-line ads and found that the resale value of my 1999 (just like new) Ram was not worth what the pay-off was and that the real market value was much lower than Kelly Blue Book, Nada Guides and what my bank thought it was worth. Needless to say the Ram is still in the driveway, the wife is working nights and weekends to help out and I'm looking for odd jobs.

BTW - Chyrsler rumored 4 doors back in 1994 for the 1995 model year so don't hold your breath

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'99, 2500, QC, SLT, LWB, 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 3. 5xlsd, tow pac, HD tcase, tow mirrors, camper pac.

Alias: Martin Allen Bursell (posted per guidlines)

 

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I'd keep it - for several reasons.
1. Do you really want to go 20+ months without a Cummins?
2. Has anyone confirmed for sure that they're really going to come out with a 4 door? Isn't it all rumor at this point?
3. Will the Cummins still be in it in '03?
4. Who knows what the heck is going to happen to Chrysler in light of what Benz is doing to it now? #2 & #3 could definately be in question now that the new owners are shaking everything up.
5. If you keep it, it will still hold it's value. What would the Echo be worth then?

Good luck, just my . 02 cents. #ad


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2001 2500; SLT; 4x4; QC; LWB; Auto; 3. 54 LS; 265s; Camper; Tow; Sliding Rear Window; Travel Convenience Group; Cab Clearance Lamps; Forest Green

 

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I just sold my 94 and took a bit of "hit" on it but its nice to not have to deal with it anymore. I would just start paying a little extra toward principle everyu month to knock down what you owe by 2003 and then decide them I wouldnt sell if it was me.

Sky

 

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I am going to be buying a new 3500 4x4 in a few months. Because of this I have been looking and pricing everything. Used are not selling, "why" because you can buy new for invoice with . 9% 36 month financing. Do the numbers, it kills any value on a late model used Ram. It will only get worse, this is the final year for this model. They will be announcing a new Ram in Feb. or March. Then they will be offering even bigger incentives for the 2001 models. I can't wait the way I look at the Cummins Ram, you buy it for keeps or 10 years which ever comes first.

 

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BV- Just like you, mine is basicly (sp?) a new truck that has 15,000-16,000 miles on it. I hate that you're stuck with it. Luckily, I put $10k down on mine when I bought it. I still have that $10k buffer, if I could get NADA for it. But from what you guys are saying, I doubt I could. As far as the rumor of 4 doors, you're right, that could be just a rumor. #ad


Fireman Dave- Life goes on, believe it or not, without all that sweet rattlin'. #ad
Although, I'm not sure I could live without it. But, right now, I'm not using the truck very much or to its full potential. In a couple years, I think I could use it for what it was built for better. It IS still a rumor for the 4 door though, you're right. If in '03 they went away from the Cummins, I might be persuaded to buy a 6-speed Sheavy Puracraps. As far as the echo goes, it would just be a "get to work" car, I wouldn't care if it was only worth $50 if it got me to work and back for 10-15 years. I once thought it was just "said" Toyota builds dependable quality cars. But now I'm a design engineer for Toyota and I KNOW they do. Maybe I can talk the Japs into making a SERIOUS Tundra and putting the Cummins in it if D/C drops the Cummins. Toyota uses diesels (like in the 4 Runner) in Japan and other markets besides the U. S. They'd probably do it if they thought they could sell it.

Sky- since I'm not upside-down on the truck (like in BV's post), & I'm actually about $10k on the good side. I think I'll put any extra money in the bank and hold on to it, versus dumping it into the truck - a place where I may find it difficult to impossible to ever get it back.

Dennis- if you think a 4 door may interest you, I'd definetly put your purchase on hold. Wait to see if the 4 door comes out if it does interest you. That's my problem. My truck is (as Tony the Tiger would say) GRRRRREEEEAAAATT! But I want a 4 door.

- JyRO

 

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I feel your pain... . debt. Ouch.

The best way to dig out form Auto debt is to 1) always borrow less on subsequent vehicles then the one before and 2) keep the vehicle for as long as you paid on it after it's paid for.

I suspect you'd find yourself in the same situatuion relatively speaking debt-wise if you sold what you have now and bought again in a few years. Keep what you have, pay it off, then keep it several years after that.

Easier said then done (interpretation: I should follow my own advise sometime). But I read the above in some financial guide a while back.

 

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While were discussing this... I'm torn by the same issue. My 98. 5 4x4 QC SB is an automatic. Owning/having owned both American and foreign auto's. . I'm convinced American's auto manu'f will never learn how to build a good automatic. So I'd really like a 6'r. But I've never seen one... . yet alone drive one. so I don't really know. It only has 24K on the odo. . Yet I'd probably take a big hit. I'm also worried that the new Dodge is going to look like "you know what".

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA 1200's, AMSOIL dual filter relocation system, Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs, Rhino Liner(Junk), K&N air filter(For Sale)15 year AMSOIL dealer. Time permitting, Soon to include Ultra-lite Pyro,0-50lbs boost, Trans temp in the pillar. Rancho 9000's with in cab adjustment.

 

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JyRO
I know what you mean about quality. I love the look of the 3500 4x4 and I LOVE the Cummins. I now own a 95 Toyota Landcruiser with over 100,000 miles. It looks and runs just like it did when it was new. You can't wear these things out. I will buy a Cummins auto and use it for a daily driver. I just don't expect it to be as trouble free as my Landcruiser. I just don't understand why Dodge can't built in the quality that Toyota does. Since you are a design engineer of Toyota can you tell me why Dodge has such a problem with this issue?

 

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Mark - I personally have no problems affording this truck. The payments are only $400/month. Insurance is $60/month. As I said in the previous posts, I DID borrow less than what the vehicle costs. $10k less. I put $10k down. So I'm OK on the payments and I'm NOT upside down if I have to sell.

Dennis - I doubt I can tell you why Dodge doesn't build at that level of quality, because I'm sure I know almost nothing about it. My guess is that its many complicated reasons. Maybe the main one is, mind-set. The Japanese have a mind-set that they will design it right from the beginning, and will NEVER deal with a "patch" to make something either right or work. Another reason, Japanese people are (probably)not the most creative thinkers or users of the latest technology. Japanese tend to stick to the tried and true technologies, they don't want to stick their necks out and get'em chopped. That has it's good and bad sides, and is a long story. Or maybe it also has something to do with (no offense here, I'm not an authority) unions, none of the Toyota North American assembly plants are unionized. The list can go on and on about the differences.

I drove an '84 Celica until '99 (when I T-boned an idiot) and it had 294,000 miles on it. Good power, good brakes, A/C was broken and wasn't worth fixing. Now my wife drives a '90 Celica with ~ 170,000 miles. Drives like a new Caddy, except buzzy high rpms. I'm getting her a Y2K 4 Runner in March. I'll drive the Celica everyday then. I was just thinking, I could sell the Celica and truck (and an RX-7 I drive everday now, which i won't need when we get the 4 Runner, and a motorcycle), pay for an Echo in cash (no payments) and save money until the 4 door trucks came out. Just don't know what I'll do. If I had somebody who wanted the truck, I'd probably let it go.

Deezal Man - I hear ya. I'm worried about the same sort of things if I try to wait for a '03 or '04. Especially since I've got a good one. It's had zero problems, looks good (blue sport), drives good, and stops good. and loaded out, with leather (see signature). Everything I've every wanted, minus a couple bigger doors.

- JyRO

 

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JyRO,
From inside info from a friend in the truck engeneering center, I was told by him that the 2003 WILL have a 4door, the 4x4 will be a solid front axle, in the 3/4 and 1 tons, the new 1/2 ton trucks will be independant front axle like GM (GREAT MISTAKE) Hydro formed frames, all new design from ground up. There will be the 5. 7 litre HEMI gas motor, AND a MIGHTY CUMMINS with common rail injection, Quiet like the durapuke, and 305hp / 550ft/lbs. the ALlison auto is also going to be availiable. I can only say this from his word, but he arranged an inspection of my truck with 2 engineers from cummins, that came up from columbus indiana just to check my truck for poor milage. (side note: the computers the cummins engineers had told EVERYTHING, from top speed the truck has gone, to how much total fuel I had burned, how much was idleing, how much timing running pulling other than just the truck (towing) and a graph that showed the average rpm range that showed them the truck diplays evidence of city driving, which I do. I would not have believed it if I would not of seen it for my self. The milage, the said was winter blend fuel, city driving and the new motors had the timing retarded to meet new federal emissions so they are not getting the same as the 12 valvers. )

Sorry for the long post, but I am confident that the 4 door is coming. Another friend is doing slam testing on a 4 door cab for the new ram.

JyRO if you want value of your truck, give
BRIAN MILOSCH a call at MILOSCH DODGE in Lake Orion, MI. He sells a ton of used diesels.

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2000 QC SHORT BED 4X4, 24 VALVE W/ 275 HP INJECTORS, 3. 54 GEARS W/ POSI, AUTO, BLACK WITH EVERYTHING EXCEPT LEATHER,285/75R16 KELLY SAFARI AWR, RAIDER NOMAD CAB HIGH CAP,FACTORY RAZ STEREO W/ STEERING WHEEL CONTROLS, KENWOOD 848 AMP, KENWOOD EXCELON 6X9 IN DOORS AND KENWOOD EXCELON 6IN. ROUND DUAL-MAGS IN REAR DOORS, MTX FACTORY FIT BOX W/ 2-10"SUBS UNDER REAR SEAT

ORDERED: 2001 ARCTIC CAT ZR800 TWIN LE BLACK...

 

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Lawdog
Help me understand this?? Dodge is now selling 2001 1/2 trucks. In March when they announce the new Rams will these be 2002 or 2003 and when will the all new trucks go on sale? The reason I am confused is that Dodge almost skiped 2000 and now during the last half of 2000 they are selling 2000 1/2. I guess my question is when will the all new from the ground-up trucks be out. Also did the Cummins engineers say when new Dodge trucks will get the common rail injection? Sorry for all of the questions, but I plan on buying in March fo 2001 and don't want to jump the gun if much better things are only a few more months away.

Thanks
Dennis

 

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lawdog, I'm interested in your milage inspection by the Cummins engineers. If possiple, could you post some more specifics about it. If not please E-Mail me. It sounds like a great thing to have done to my truck in the future.

My 2001 is wonderful and I wouldn;t even consider selling it until I've got at least 10 yrs out of it. My dealer, whom I trust very well, advised me when I was considering a Cummins that it wouldn't pay for itself unless I put over 25,000 miles per year on it. He explained that this was related to depreciation value, cost over a similarly equipped gasser, and fuel milage. I picked up my truck on July 1, and currently have 12,000 plus miles on it. So I'm well on my way for the 25,000 mark. Any suggestions for a new owner would be appreciated.

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01' QuadCab 4x4 auto, 3. 54, MP 12-disc changer
MP tow hooks, Speedliner, UWS toolbox, Garnet red w/
driftwood. Pure Stocker

 

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Lawdog - Thanks for the info. I think I'll give Brian a call. I'll contact you via you're email address.

Dennis - I think you may be confused. From my understanding, they only sold 2000's for a short while, then came out with the 2001. 5's (2001 1/2). There's no such thing as a 2000. 5 or (2000 1/2). That's just my understanding. 1st the new body style (with 4 door option) will come out on the 1500's on 2001 as 2002 models. Then new body style (with 4 door option) will come out on the 2500's and 3500's in 2002 as 2003 models. That's my understanding.

 

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I've seen three full scale proto type models of Ram crew cabs, so I'd bet money on them coming out with one by '03. I was gonna wait to get one 'cause they are bad to the bone, but just couldn't wait. I came accross a deal I couldn't refuse: I saved $9K off the sticker on mine.

My wife drives a Bombed '96 Ram 4X2 gasser: Maybe I'll buy her a '03 crew cab 4X4. Hmmmm.



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2000 4X4 SLT QC 8' bed; 6 spd, 3. 54 ; BD exhaust brake and 4" exhaust syst; TST PM2; Airlift Super Duty rear air bags; RS 9000 shocks; pyro/boost gauges in 2 gauge a-pillar mount; back preasure gauge mounted under dash; KN air filter; Brown's Welding brush/grill guard, rear bumper & headache rack; nerf bars and aluminum roll top rear cover, Warn front receiver and Hadley air horns

 

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Dennis:
My dealer says the 2002 won't be out until next fall, for whatever that's worth. I ordered mine in Feb. and was surprised it was going to be a 2001. Now that the 2001. 5 is out, I realize mine is really just a 2000 that's called a 2001. I'm still tortured by the fact that I didn't get in on the rear disc brakes that are on the "real" 2001's. #ad


My dealer also says Dodge already builds a 4 door in Mexico, but they don't export it to Canada or the U. S. I remember reading about this before. If that's the case, I wonder if anyone has tried to buy one in Mexico and bring it home. I would have liked a 4 door, too. I compromised because the Cummins is a superior engine (vs Ford), and I didn't want to wait forever for Dodge to "maybe" come out with a 4 door (although Lawdog's info sounds very promising). I'm also not too crazy about the new front end drawings I've seen.

 

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FiremanDave
Don't get me wrong. I want the current 3500 4x4. I just figure that if they anounce a new one by March of next year I will be able to get an even better price and rebates on the current model. When I talk to the Dodge sales guys they just want me to buy now and act like nothing is going to change and I need to buy today to get the current deal and rebates. That is why i am fishing for more information from you guys.

 

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JyRO,
If your bank acount is making more interest than you are paying interest on the loan by all means put the money in the bank. But if your paying 3 to 7+ percent more for loan. Double payments to kill loan fast and then you can put the money and extra interest in the bank.
When you see the 4-door on the lot then decide what to do with truck, sell or trade.

 

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Dennis - You're doing the right thing fishing for info here, IMHO. Don't listen to the dealers, they just want to sell sell sell.

Missouri Mule - You're right. At 6. 75% on the truck loan, that interest is outpacing the bank account. My problem is, "The Warden," wants and is going to get a 4 Runner. So I want to leave some cash around to put down on that. Once I've bought that, the double payment option on my truck will cease to exist. I still don't know if I'd save more money selling my truck now and waiting for an '03 4 door or, keeping it until the '03 4 door comes out then selling. I think I could live (barely #ad
) without my truck for 20 months or so. I'll have severe diesel withdrawals, though. If I had to, I'd go to diesel rehab. #ad

 

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Dennis, TO answer the question as to why they started to sell the 2001 trucks in the beginning of 2000 was due to what I was told was the "C. A. F. E. " which I believe is corporate average fuel economy> the rumors are that there will be the new ram on display at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit which Starts on January 12, 2001WHich is friday night which a Black Tie affair, tickets $350. 00 each, open to normal folk on sat 01-13-2000. I am supposed to get in during the week before for press week with a friend who owns a dealer, I will try to post pictures as soon as possible. I have not heard when the 2002 trucks will be released, I was only told to wait for the 2003c for a 4 door and the diesel. I had heard that only 1/2 tons will be released the first year, and the manly trucks in 2003.
The new motor is supposed to be in the new truck when it comes out, I believe in 2003 model year. I can only quess that the models will be released as normally happens after the june change over each year. Hope that helps.

D. DUNCAN,
What I was complaining about on my milage was that I was only getting about 10-11- mpg towing an aluminum enclosed snowmobile trailer, total weight less that 3000 lbs, and one of my friends that works in the engine build lab (gas) at JTE (Jeep /Truck Engineering) was getting 10-11 also with his 360 gas, pullig the same weight with 4. 10 gears on a 2000 ram off-road. his trailer is though an open with a slush guard so it has a little less drag, but my trailer is only about 3" over the top of my cab high cap and has a 54" long V-nose so it has a good angle across the front, the truck also had less than 10,000 miles on it, about 8,000 at the time. The Engineers only found the rubber hoses for the intercooler were leaking air at 7 p. s. i. that you could hear. they re tourqued them and made sure they were not leaking any further up to 20 p. s. i. THe engineers said the truck was running as it should, and said the truck should pick up some milage as it breaks in more. I was mislead by people with 12 valvers saying they get 17 mpg towing a 31' airstream camper that weights 9500 lbs, and another old ram, 1st gen, 1989 w/o overdrive getting 13 pulling his 24' enclose car trailer. The engineers said the 12 valvers got better economy, and they had heard that some actually pulled better than the 24 valver due to the feds emissions standards, and cummins having to de-tune the 24 valve, backing off the timing to meet the emissions.

After the engineers looked at the truck, I then had the 275hp injectors put in. the truck pulls alot harder and knocked 2. 5 seconds off the 0-60 time, and the milage has stayed about the same. I also was towing my trailer at about 75 mph, which I have seen empty that if I stay at about 72 I get about 1 mpg better that at 75-78. I know that 75 is fast even with a small trailer, but go much slower an you get blown off the road by the morons going 80-85 towing 24 footers. Average speed on I-75 is 75-80 in the 70 zones. The engineers also said the speed would also affect the milage, as does the 285's tires, which is the first thing they commented on when walking up to the truck. They said to add 4 percent to my miles driven before calculating milage for the tire offset from the 265's that it came with to the 285s. doing that the best I have seen is 17. 9 mpg in the summer with no trailer at 72 mph, about 1800-1850 rpm, using BP diesel supreme (same as amoco desiel premier, 50 cetane fuel )


I hope this helps.