Here I am

This is getting out of hand...

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remote programming, '97 sebring

Very interesting reading gentlemen. As a Canadian I only was taught the school book version of the cival war. Your comments are very insightfull.

Now if any of you folks are up to a real challange how would you like Quebec as the 51st state?? But please keep in mind they will not allow you boy's to speak any English or have any English signage while in Quebec and the rest of the 50 states will have to be fully bilingual in French so all the folks from Quebec can feel at home if they come to visit. Sound crazy? You bet . But unfortunately it's true. Oh and one other thing. They will demand more than there fair share of the federal dollars and first dibbs on all government contracts, and if they don't get it they will cry discrimination. So how about it guys, when would you like to take over??? Springs just around the corner and the fishing is great. Just be prepared to get your licence in French only though.
 
Whewwww I don't think I would be interested in any canuuck land at the moment. Don't ya just love zone nazis and the like. The like being covenant neighborhoods and city ordinances out of this world. It's ridiculus in Springfield Mo with all of the laws they are passing. Don't feed your cat on the front porch. That's a big fine they established last year. I'm glad I live 35 miles out in the middle of the National Forest. I can feed my horses, mules, cats and dogs anywhere I please.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Goat

... Quebec as the 51st state?? But please keep in mind they will not allow you boy's to speak any English or have any English signage while in Quebec and the rest of the 50 states will have to be fully bilingual in French so all the folks from Quebec can feel at home if they come to visit. Sound crazy? You bet . But unfortunately it's true. Oh and one other thing. They will demand more than there fair share of the federal dollars and first dibbs on all government contracts, and if they don't get it they will cry discrimination...



So the movie "Canadian Bacon" weren't too far from the truth, eh? (pardon the "eh", eh? ) :D If the US took over there, methinks that whole French language thing would be a thing of the past. As you can see from prior posts, we tend only to allow freedoms that benefit the power wielders and the wandering sheep who elect them. :rolleyes:
 
What do you guys think this country would be today if we were all divided? Seriously. I don't know that we would be here at all. The strength of a UNITED country has led as far as we've gotten. I am not trying to start a ******* match here, believe me. I think divided we would fall, it would be like all the other peon countries in europe etc that get picked on, we could potentially be a part of England or Germany, who knows...



Just a thought





Will
 
We fell to big government practices in 1860 and have been falling ever since. We seem to be picking up speed on our decent as well.
 
Originally posted by mcoleman

We fell to big government practices in 1860 and have been falling ever since. We seem to be picking up speed on our decent as well.

Unfortunately, so true.

As mentioned before, the League of the South, Sons of Confederate Veterans, and Dixienet are great organizations and sources of TRUE Confederate history. Another one with Southern and Christian morals is "Southern Party Of Georgia" www.spofga.org

As for the "Stars and Bars" flag discussion, that was the name of the first Confederate banner, also known as the "first national" flag of the Confederacy. It is the one with the seven stars in the top left field and the red/white/red bars, hence the name "stars and bars". This is also the flag the "new" Georgia flag is based on. The battle flag and naval jack are the ones with the St. Andrews Cross. The second and third national Confederate flags also featured the St. Andrew's Cross in the top left field. I am not sure of the dates that each of these flags were flown, but the unofficial first flag of the Confederacy was the "Bonnie Blue", which is the solid blue flag with a single white star in the center. The first official Confederate banner was the "stars and bars" flag. I have all 5, plus the TRUE Georgia flag with the St Andrew's Cross, which the politicians stole from state buildings... and NO flag of the Northern Agression!!!

:D
 
I have no problem taking over Canada, but I'll never switch to the Metric system.



Will24: If you think about it, we are a divided country. People are coming into this country and are not expected to learn English. When my great-grandparents came to this country, they learned English. That was all that was spoken in the house, except when they didn't want the kids to hear what was being said.



Paul
 
Originally posted by A Johnson

Rodney King

Now whats my prize?

A Johnson



Uuuh... . How 'bout a bicycle tour of East LA?:D You and a pal on a tandem bicycle, equipped with neon lycra gear.

Or you could take what's behind the curtain... :p
 
Northern Agression?

Wasnt it the Confederates that attacked Fort Sumter (sp?), thus starting the war? With that kind of thinking, no WONDER no one wants us to fight terrorism; it's our own fault for being Americans.

And the war WAS about State's Rights- the right of plantation owners to have slaves so they could get rich and fat off the labor of others. Still going on today- it's called welfare.

As for Southern Hospitality, the only hospitality I've ever experienced in ANY part of the South was a middle finger at best. The ones around here, anyway, are the RUDEST, most backward, inbred, narrow minded people I've ever had the misfortune of meeting. They all band together, and if one of them picks a fight with you, you inherently take on all 34 of their cousins, aunts, uncles, et al, in defending yourself. In other words, they cant fight their own fights w/o bringing in the rest of the family. Dont even get me started on your judges and courts; crroked as a barrel of snakes. Gimme Denver rush hour ad the "No Hablo Ingles" crowd any day over the inbred Rebels and Southern Hsopitality.



I agree, the covenant/ zone Nazis are getting out of hand, but it is your choice if you decide to live in a Nazi- zoned area (or if you're in southeast MO, just Nazi), and you must live with the consequences of such a decision.



Stepping off soapbox and donning Kevlar pants.



Daniel
 
dpuckett it appears the only thing you know about the south is what is taught in the government schools and what the Liberals and PCs would like for you to believe. The South was provoked and goaded by Lincoln into attacking Ft. Sumter by him having the harbor blockaded. It was not just a random attack for no reason. Like I said before people only know what they are taught by the establishment. They have no clue as to what the war was really about. For instance General Grant of the Union had slaves and General Lee did not and was against slavery. President Jeff Davis had an adopted black son. Only 3 to 5 % of the southern population even had slaves. Lincoln wanted the war because he didn't want to loose the tax revenues from the south and he wanted a centralized government he didn't even get an act of congress to declare war he did on it his own. Most of the Northern population didn't care whether the southern states succeeded or not and Lincoln was a racist that didn't care what happened to the blacks. All you have to do is research his campaign speeches from the 1850s to see this. The speel he put out on it being against slavery was a smoke and mirrors act to convince the British and other foreign countries not to take the side of the South. Upon doing this he had major riots from the northern people that opposed going to war for that reason. He jailed 100s of people that opposed his point of view. Shut down and destroyed newspapers that spoke out against him, removed senators and the like from congress that opposed him among many other issues. Read up on REAL history not government mandated junk from the government that invaded the south. He violated every constitutional right that our forefathers fought for. And the right to succeed was an important right to them. 1000s of them died to succeed from the British and the same taxes that Lincoln was wanting to impose on the southern people. Check out the websites and organizations that were listed in this post and learn the real truth.
 
mcoleman, you seem to know your civil war history very well, I especially applaud you revealing the facts about one of the most honorable persons i have ever read about... Robert E. Lee. I was amazed the first time i read what he did in that church after the war and what he really stood for (My truck is nicknamed traveller)



having said that, I would be careful in your beliefs that the south took the moral highground..... " LOS members still stand for the same principles that our relatives did in the 1860s. Morals, Christian values, states rights among many other things. "



if I were you I would read up on how northern soldiers were treated at Andersonville. Also the confederate troops themselves adopted a "no prisoners" attitude especially toward black regiments and the unions repsponses to things like the massacres at Olustee, Fort Pillow, Poison Spring, and the Crater were often to attack towns and villages.



My point is that both sides have done terrible things as in all wars, the south had lofty ideals... as i believe the north did, I guess in battle values come second to survival and revenge for your brothers. I hope and believe that we learned something from this terrible war... and the US is a better place since.
 
http://etherzone.com/2004/stang031204.shtml

More things they don't teach in public school. I have read up on Andersonville as well as the Northern prisons in Ill and New York. 26000 Confederate Soldiers died in northern prisons and 22000 Union prisoners died in Confederate prisons. Seeing as how most of the soldiers themselves didn't have food to eat I would imagine that the prisoners starved to death on both sides. Bad way to go. I've also read tales of mistreatment from both sides to prisoners. One of the northern prisons had a sawhorse type setup known as Morgans Mule. They required the prisoner to set on this while his legs were weighted down. The seat was designed to cut into his legs very deeply. They brought tourists in to view the confederate soldier in this device and they made him pray to Lincoln before releasing him from the device. I have a foxtrotter due May 1st from my Wifes mare and Traveler is the named we have picked out for it also.
 
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The Great Untold Story of the 'Civil War'



contributed by Kay R. Reyes

Huntsville, Alabama







Although Turner Network Television claims to have told 'The Great Untold Story of the "Civil War"' through its recent production, 'Andersonville', the true untold story is the other way around: that of the plight of Southern captives confined in Federal prison camps. Here is their story.



At Illinois's 'living grave', Alton Prison, the Confederates were housed in the former Illinois State Penitentiary, which through the efforts of reformer Dorothea Dix, had been condemned as unfit for human habitation. Andersonville, on the other hand, was chosen for the healthfulness of the site and the supply of fresh water which was adequate for the projected number of future prisoners. Although the city of Alton was a produce centre, hundreds of prisoners suffered from the ravages of scurvy. From just the right corner, with bloody, diseased gums and teeth falling out, the ailing prisoners could peer out over the 30 foot high prison walls at neighbouring hilltops covered with pear, peach, and crabapple trees. Prisoner entreaties to the guards for some of the trees' life-saving fruit were cruelly denied.



"At Elmira, however, the chief surgeon, E. L. Sanger, who boasted that he had 'killed more "Rebs" than any soldier at the front', resigned his post in order to avoid court martial for his criminal treatment of prisoners. "



Deaths at Alton were not accurately recorded, yet at Andersonville every death was carefully registered and each grave was meticulously marked by order of Commandant Captain Henry Wirz who explained that he wanted any Northern mother who came down looking for her son, to find him. According to an Illinois State Office of Tourism publication, estimates of the death rate at Alton reach as high as over 42%, nearly doubling the 24% rate at Andersonville. At Camp Douglas in Chicago, intoxicated guards frequently inflicted arbitrary punishments upon blameless Southern captives. Once, when a guard slipped and fell, a North Carolinian, who could not contain his laughter, was shot and killed on the spot. For the crime of 'spitting too much' prisoners from Barrack #10 were made to sit naked on the ice. Confederates were tied up by their thumbs or were forced to ride the infamous 'Morgan's Mule'a twelve foot high carpenter's saw horse. With weights attached to the prisoners' legs, the sharpened top plank would tear through the flesh leaving the prisoners unable to walk for days. Harsh and undue punishment? Morgan's Mule was a particular favourite of the tourists who paid to climb the tourist observation tower and gaze out at the 'Rebs'. On days when no punishment was scheduled, innocent prisoners had to ride the Mule solely for the entertainment of the paying tourists.



In February 1863, out of 3,884 POWs at Camp Douglas, 387 died. This mortality rate of ten percent of the entire prison population in one month alone was never surpassed by any other prison, North or South. Elmira, dubbed 'Hellmira' by the Confederates, paralleled Andersonville in length of existence. Both were late-war prisons, yet the 33 percent death rate at this New York state prison was considerably higher than the rate at the more well-known Georgia stockade. After rations were reduced to bread and water, Southern prisoners resorted to eating rats and searching in the sewer for scraps of food. According to Confederate law, however, Federal POWs were given the same rations as the Confederate soldier in the field. Prisoners' tents at Elmira were ordered struck at morning roll call and could not be pitched again until evening, leaving the hapless Southerners at the mercy of the elements for the entire day. At Andersonville, on the other hand, while the Confederacy was unable to provide shelter for such vast numbers of prisoners, it did not prohibit prisoner-made shelters (shebangs) which, as contemporary photographs illustrate, literally covered the prison enclosures.



"In their emaciated condition POWs were tormented by their guards who forced them to kneel and pray to Abraham Lincoln, to run, to dance or to stand on one foot for more than a half-hour. "



Not withstanding TNT's portrayal of Andersonville commandant Wirz as (according to Newsweek magazine) an 'aging (Wirz was 42 at the onset of hostilities), barbarous, pre-Nazi', responsible historians now regard Wirz as an innocent scapegoat and victim of post-war hysteria. At Elmira, however, the chief surgeon, E. L. Sanger, who boasted that he had 'killed more "Rebs" than any soldier at the front', resigned his post in order to avoid court martial for his criminal treatment of prisoners. At Johnson's Island Prison in Ohio African-American Confederate POWs were denied their rations in an attempt to force them to desert, which they refused to do. It was their white comrades-in-arms who came to their rescue by sharing their own meagre rations. Point Lookout in Maryland, the largest prison in the North, housed nearly 20,000 by war's end. POWs there lived in leaky, U. S. Army-reject tents. The often poorly clad Confederates had to huddle together all day or run to prevent actually freezing to death. At one time, fully one-third of the prisoners lacked a single blanket. The Southern captives slept on the bare ground and on every cold night from four to seven prisoners froze to death. In their emaciated condition POWs were tormented by their guards who forced them to kneel and pray to Abraham Lincoln, to run, to dance or to stand on one foot for more than a half-hour.



Beginning in late 1864 Rock Island Prison in Illinois was likened to Andersonville. Stories of the atrocities of Rock Island appeared even in The New York Daily News which described the rations as '1/3 lb. of bread and 2" square of meat supplemented when possible by dogs, rats and mice. Many are nearly naked, bare-footed, bareheaded and without bedclothes. They are thus exposed to the ceaseless torture from the chill and the pitiless winds of the Upper Mississippi River. Death is the only comforter and he appears frequently. ' The guards at Camp Chase in Columbus, Ohio, took pleasure in watching the starving Confederates scuffle for apple cores and melon rinds that they threw out into the prison streets. Prisoners were hanged by the toes or forced to stand barefoot in the snow. Even local Columbus newspapers said that the North could howl about Andersonville, but it should stop and look at Camp Chase. Indeed, the record of prisoner deaths in one day at Camp Chase surpasses the record, percentage-wise, at the larger Andersonville prison.



Although perpetrated upon the dead, it was at Camp Chase that occurred the most singular atrocity of any prison, North or South: prisoners' bodies were sold to a medical school in Cleveland. Confederate authorities conscientiously endeavoured to relieve the conditions in the Southern prisons. Confederate President Jefferson Davis sent a delegation of prisoners, paroled from Andersonville, to Washington to plead for resumption of the Prisoner Exchange Program (which would have relieved most of the suffering). Abraham Lincoln refused to see the men and the Cabinet member who did meet with the Andersonville delegation scornfully admonished them that they did their country more good by returning whence they had come. ('Avenge Andersonville' was, by then, serving the Lincoln administration as a rallying cry against sagging enlistments for its highly unpopular war. ) Moreover, Jefferson Davis's humane offer to purchase, in gold, medicine and supplies that were unavailable in the South, for the sole use of the prisoners at Andersonville, received no response whatsoever from Washington.



The mini-series 'Andersonville' ends with the prisoners headed for an exchange that didn't happen. The program fails to mention the reason: that the United States Exchange officials refused to accept the prisoners. In 1866, United States Secretary of War, Edwin M. Stanton, released the following figures regarding prisoners of war: 26,436 Confederate dead in Union prisons; 22,576 Union dead in Confederate prisons. Thus nearly 18% more Confederates lost their lives in Northern prisons than vice versa. Bearing in mind that the suffering in the Southern prisons took place in a war-torn South, while the misery and deprivation endured by Confederate prisoners in Northern prison camps occurred in a land of plenty, it would seem that Ted Turner picked the wrong prison.



Kay Reyes is Commandant-In-Chief of the Confederate Prisoner of War Society, PO Box 702, Huntsville, AL 35804.
 
Originally posted by Elite1

Losers?



Upon second thought, I was out of line with that remark... as both sides were losers. (as in most wars)

I actually had relatives who fought on both sides of the war...

& Lynyrd Skynyrd is still my favorite all time band!
 
Funny thing is I bet we all had relatives thought fought on both sides. I've read a lot of reports of brothers and fathers and sons fighting against one another during the war. Over 600,000 died because of it as well.
 
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