This is what my Cummins dealer JUST told me!!?? Is he right??

[rraulston]

Just got back from my local Cummins dealer. I told him i wanted the updated ECM reflash and asked if he had it. I told him that i was tired of the dealers crap. I showed him the TSB paper i had. He didnt know alot about it but said he had the latest software and pulled out a cd. He didnt seel to care much about the year of my truck as long as it was a 24 valve and said his software was 2 weeks old right from MA cummins. He wants $135 to reflash it with the two week old software. Does this sound right to you all???? Feedback asap. Ime teetering on it right now. I need more than 16 MPG. RRR

 

[Snow man]

Why do you want to reflash your truck?I lost about 3 mpg when i got mine reflashed. I had to get mine flashed,dont do it!You will regret it,and once flashed you cant ever get your old flash back,its gone,and no one has it.

 

[DEZLPWR]

Ask him if this is the reflash that will give you 300hp and a butt-load of torque!

 

[Snow man]

That 300hp reflash will also limit his RPM's to 2500,he's beter off buying used EZ here,and not getting a reflash.

 

[DavidD]

I would agree! Dont get it flashed! Get yourself a gauge pod and the boost and pyro gauge and find an EZ or Va box. You wont regret that move at all. Dave

 

[TxDieselKid]

I would check into this more, what program i. e. just a tsb, or a 275, or a 300 hp. It's a great deal.



Also, do not send any body the name of the shop, as they could get in to REALLY hot water from what I understand.



Andrew

 

[stevek]

I didn't think that Cummins could flash the Dodge ECM? I thought that the ECM was supplied entirely by DC so the Cummins software wouldn't work?

 

[TxDieselKid]

Well here is the way I understand it.....



The Cummins Instie program can READ data that is in the ECM, such as, engine hours, and accurate MPG, and some other stuff.



However the ESDN software, which is the one used to alter settings on other ECMs, will not interface with the Dodge ECM.



Am I close?



Andrew

 

[DarrellB]

Ding, Ding, Ding

We have a winner.



Andrew has done his homework.



I have a buddy that works a Cummins of Cumberland and he bought a 2001 Dodge Cummins last year and was going to do some reprograming until the engineers at Cumberland told him it was imposible to do so.



They (Cummins) can read engine codes, determine MPG, and all other kinds of stats like hours run, load hours, rpm range, well I could go one but the thing they can not do is change the software in the ECM. :{ Dodge can do this but the only thing you can get is the latest version in production so the most power avalible is an HO program. You know that one little box that dealers sell. Cummins can reset the engine codes and preform diagnostic check but they can not change the software Dodge has installed. So the only way you can get more noticible power is to go with one of the many fueling boxes avalible on the market.



So what I have to say about that is Happy Bombing



Big D

 

[rraulston]

before i do anything, i will do more research. This guy sorta seemed like he knew what he was talking about. I know one thing. There were almost more dodges there then highway rigs. One was in the middle of an engine change. and it looked like all the service vehicles were cummins dodges. I have to pick up the iat from them today and ill pump him for more questions. Thanks for the imput. It seemed most of you were against the reflash, but there are other threads that people gained when doing the TSB reflash. My serial number is well earlier than the cutoff serial number... ..... RRR

 

[big barney]

Cummins can reflash your ECM. I had mine done about a year and a half ago. After the dealer reflashed mine with the infamous 18-11-99 truck turned into a dog. Low power and lost 2 mpg. Took it to cummins and they reflashed it. Didn't make a bit of difference. Cost was $50. 00 Just add some kind of box and be done with it.

 

[MikeR]

I've had both my 99 and 00 reflashed with good results. Both ran better and it did not hurt my mileage at all.



Cummins can reflash the ecm, they just can't tweak the program going into the Dodge ecm like some guys would like to do.

 

[ata]

Anybody that wants the actual scoop on the EMC`s and that have the Magazine. Get issue 23 of TDR and go to page 34. It tells who can program the Dodge EMC`c. (Cummin`s can) But the Dodge ECM is a unit Designed by Cummin`s and it`s only for Dodge and it has limitations.

In issue 25 of TDR on page 38 it tells that Cummin`s requested TST to discontinue the practice of up rating the Cummin`s 24 valve EMC`s because Cummin`s has Copyrighted the software programs. So that makes it illegal for anyone but Cummin`s or Dodge to change the EMC`s programing. You can add a box to fool it but you can`t change it.

 

[TxDieselKid]

See ata, that's what does not make since to me. If you OWN the truck, and not making money off of it, then it should be ok. But that's just my thoughts.



Andrew

 

[Evan A. Beck]

Andrew,



INSITE can adjust parameters (not fueling) in every ECM application BUT the Dodge. There's a ton of stuff that can be changed in an RVC or truck ECM like fan clutch operation and idle speed. But in the Dodge, these features are non-acessible. ESDN, which we have, is a good program, but it still leaves some things inacessible.

 

[ata]

Andrew, I would like to agree with you on the part, if you own it you should be able to mess with it. But Cummins was not only worried about their copyrighted software programs but also EPA regulations and the penalties that might fall on them if the engine failed emissions testing. I understand what the EPA is trying to do but I also think they go overboard on some of the things that they do. There never seems to be any middle ground with the Government and their rules and regulation.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Even if they copyright the program they cannot stop you from changing hardware they don't own. even if you are charging to do it. once its changed the new product is no longer the copyrighted material. it would then be an original program.



Its like this . . I buy a book. I sell it. This is not copywrite infringement unless I reproduce the original book and make more copies than I bought. If I buy 2 copies of a book and I burn one I can reproduce a copy of the one that remains. I purchased 2 licenses to that book.



If I buy an ECM I can do with it what I please. If you buy my altered ECM its your problem not DC or Cummins.



once you buy a prize its yours to keep. what you do to it ON PUBLIC ROADS is between you and the EPA. Off road is none of their business anyway.

 

[MikeR]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

Its like this . . I buy a book. I sell it. This is not copywrite infringement UNLESS I reproduce the original book and make more copies than I bought

With that statement you are pretty close to what was going on back in '99. You see, TST was making a 275hp ecm by using Cummins' exact software, he wasn't inventing his own software, just loading in what already existed. It was the same thing as the RV, just loaded in the Dodge case and selling for profit.



So basically in your kind of example like above... he was selling the story book pages word for word, but with a 'different cover' on it. That is copywrite infringement.





-Mike

 

[Jetpilot]

If TST was using Cummins exact software then why can't a Cummins dealer just load the same software into our ecm's? I noticed above that one member stated that the trucks rpm's would be limited. Is this really the case with the program TST was using?



Doug

 

[TowPro]

I think I recall TST took the RV software, broke the code and incorporated the 275hp differences into the dodge software.



The problem was by taking the copywrited code from the 275 and reverse engineering it, then changing the fueling maps of the Dodge Code (again copywrited code) by using the code from the 275 (again copywrited code) the end result is copywrite infringment.

Originally posted by MikeR





With that statement you are pretty close to what was going on back in '99. You see, TST was making a 275hp ecm by using Cummins' exact software, he wasn't inventing his own software, just loading in what already existed. It was the same thing as the RV, just loaded in the Dodge case and selling for profit.



So basically in your kind of example like above... he was selling the story book pages word for word, but with a 'different cover' on it. That is copywrite infringement.





-Mike