Tig/Stick or Mig welder: Your suggestions, please!

[Un-Hemi]

This spring, after my forced retirement, I'm planning to purchase a welder; something better than hobby-grade. Applications would be both sheet metal replacement on hobby-cars and I'd like to build a 'universal' car trailer/trash hauler again. Both Lincoln and Miller have intermediate-grade Tig/Stick machines, as well as Migs in the same price range. What would be my best choice here? Is the Mig as 'universal' as it seems? Does a Tig/Stick give me more versatility? I browsed some of the archives for various opinions, but no one has compared the two alternatives. Whaddya think?



TIA



Tom

 

[Forrest Nearing]

well, for mild steel trailers, a 220v MIG will work just fine, and if all you're going to be doing is steel, I'd go MIG... so easy to work with.



if you think you'll be doing much aluminum, chromoly, stainless, etc. a TIG is the only way to go... you can MIG aluminum w/ a spool gun, but...



with that said, I'm willing to bet you'll be very happy with a 220v MIG.



Forrest

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I'm a Miller guy and darn proud of it!

I bought a Miller Syncrowave 180SD Digital TIG/stick box (with runner package... . basically: wheels and a tank holder... ) this year and could not be happier with the unit. I think I paid roughly $1600 for it... .



If you want to weld nearly all materials with the absolute best weld quality - TIG is the only way to fly. Plus - you can stick weld with any TIG box. TIG boxes usually have VERY good power supplies and are capable of being REALLY good stick welders... .



Welders start to get really nice once you're over the $900 price point..... below that, and you're into the consumer grade stuff.



Once you go TIG - you'll never go back to any other process... unless speed/cost is a concern.



If I were in the market for a MIG box - I'd either get a Millermatic 210 or a 'Pulser'... . but that's just my opinion.



The only advantage MIG has over TIG is speed and cost. MIG is quicker and usually costs less. TIG is more complicated - but the complication comes with really great rewards in terms of weld quality. You can MIG almost any material that a TIG box can buzz together - with the exception of the exotic metals.



Ever seen someone fusion weld soft copper pipe? It's fun - and you can only do it with a TIG welder.



Matt

 

[JSykes]

In my opinion, I think you would be better off with the Tig/Stick machine. I am assuming that you have experiece Tig and Stick welding. Mig is alot easier to do, but Tig is more versatile with the types of metals that you can weld. You can get Tig rod and Stick rods to do stainless steel, carbon steels, and even cast iron. You have the option of using a larger diameter rod to weld thicker materials. If you get a machine such as a Miller Synchrowave 250, you will have an AC square wave option that you can use to weld aluminum.



Don't get me wrong, I like Mig welding. It is fast and easy. Personally, I would have a Tig/Stick machine in my shop.



If you go outside of the Miller and Lincoln realm and look at an Esab machine, they offer a welder that is capable of Mig, Tig, and Stick. Pretty slick machine. We have one on "trial" at work. It is a used machine that they are asking $1600. 00 for. It is a C machine so you cannot weld Aluminum. Esab makes very good equipment if you are not familiar with them. I will check on the model number on Friday.



Hope this helps. PM me if you need some more information.



Jay

 

[Forrest Nearing]

good call on the blue boxes, I'm a Miller man myself!



I've got a little 110v Miller, and it has served me very well... built many a custom turbo kit with it!



I agree, if you want to be able to weld anything and make it look nice and purty, you can't beat a TIG...



if you were planning on building those trailers for a living, I'd say get the big MIG... (mild steel, you can crank 'em out quickly, etc. )



I think you'd be very happy w/ a MIG, but as he said, once you go TIG, you wouldn't want to go back!



Forrest

 

[Blackcloud]

Here's my take... . buy a Miller,you won't be sorry



Like Forrest said if you are going to do aluminum,definately go with a TIG,it is the only way to weld it properly



Holeshot said it best by saying TIG will give you the best quality



Personally I have a Miller 210 and absolutely love it,but now I am in the market for a TIG so I can weld aluminum and do more of the finesse welds that I want to do. I will buy another Miller,there is no doubt in my mind. I have used ESAB MIG welders (in a previous job) and had a lot of problems with them,also had a lot of problems getting parts from the factory for it (kinda left a bad taste in my mouth).



MIG is faster and more forgiving on metal prep... TIG is more particular and metal prep is critical

 

[ndurbin]

Miller MIG welder would be my choice.

 

[Tim1]

welders

Ya know, I've got the Miller 200 millermatic mig set up and use it very little as most of my stuff is in position on rigs and can't get the big lead in there. If I can use new material and do it in the shop for a job, then out comes the mig. Stick option is nice! I use 6011 and 7018 and 308 stainless on most stuff. Blue rules. The stick is a Thunderbolt and works great. Tim

 

[mdivincentis]

MILLER! Oo.





Thats my favorite, but the red brand is OK too.

Don't waste money on a Pulsed power supply unless you are doing high production, burn-thru prone weld applications. As stated above, TIG makes beautiful and sound welds, but a good MIG will take care of 90% of your jobs, and quickly. Stick is too slow, and really not a necessary process anymore UNLESS you can't fit the gun into a tight spot, which does happen occasionally.

If you are going to be doing much welding at 3/16" and over, I would get a MIG capable of spray transfer operation, i. e. a Millermatic 251 or 300. You will trip the thermal overload in about 10 minutes on a 251 running spray transfer, but that's running constant bead, so I don't think you will run into trouble there.

If you want to run spray transfer as well as short circuit modes on mild steel well, you will need a different shielding gas than C25 (75% Ar, 25%CO2). Your best bet will be something around 14% CO2 and 86% Ar. Don't get 10% CO2/90% Ar, that is a low energy gas and will not work well with short circuit modes.

Run an . 035 ER70S-6 wire, it's good all around; for lots of sheet metal, you may look into an . 030 or even . 023 wire, it will reduce burn thru significantly.

You can also weld outside in z wind with these MIGs with an E71T-GS flux core wire.



So, my vote is Miller MIG, 251 or 300-get a TIG afterward





Matt

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I find it interesting that the guys with the best taste in engines (Cummins) also have the best taste in welders! (Miller)



Forrest

 

[Alan Reagan]

I'm glad I checked this thread out. I've been looking at the Lincoln Powermax 300. Any idea what the Miller equivalent model would be? The main reason I was looking at Lincoln is because there is a dealer near where I live. I've always heard good things about Miller..... just never used one.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

JSykes: My Miller Syncrowave 180SD has AC squarewave as well... . The Syncrowave 250 has a few more bells and whistles... . and more output... . but the two welders are very similar otherwise.



I'm horrible at welding aluminum - it's gonna take some practice... . so I don't flip the switch to AC very often.



The miller Pulser has a terrific power supply - the fact that it can do light materials is only the icing on the cake. I probably wouldn't even use the pulsed mode very often.



I really like the idea of being able to have a spool gun and the regular wire feed hooked up at the same time..... that way you could use the spool for Al and the wire feed for everything else. All you have to do is pickup the handle and hit the trigger..... obviously you can't use both at once.....



Matt

 

[Un-Hemi]

thanks for the input, Fellas. I should have stated that I'm a welding neophite with no preconceived notions about welding. The welder won't be used for serious production work; just various hobby projects.



Your input is appreciated, and I'll report back on what I end up with.



Tom

 

[Paychk]

Tom



What I would suggest is to go to these welding forums and check them out.



Hobart Weld Talk





Miller Ask Andy



Both are good and have guys the caliber of the TDR.



BTW both Miller and Hobart are owned by Illinois Tool Works (ITW). Hobart is aimed at hobbyists and Miller at pro's. There is quite a bit of overlap as far as machines go.

 

[lil red cummins]

i obviously shouldnt get into the brand of welder since there are atleast 2 great manufacturers.



the question of what TYPE of welder is a good question.



Stick - the cheapest way to start. creates alot of slag and splatter but is good for many simple or crude jobs, where appearence is not as important as strong weld. this is all i had for my first 5 years of welding and i did a bunch.



mig - great at joining 2 pieces of metal together at a high rate of speed. provides clean welds and fast, strong welds. also can be used on aluminum and stainless with the right wire. equipment cost is not bad. this is prefered for body shop or high volume production.



tig - what i use the most, provides the cleanest weld possible. fusing parts together does not require fill rod to create an arc, however a little fill rod helps give a clean, defect free weld. this offers the greatest range of power from very thin sheetmetal to 1/2" aluminum which takes the most amount of power. tig is a slower process so is not suitable for high volume welding. stainless steel welding shows superior quality to any of the others. most times i weld, there is NO post cleanup with grinder or slag problems. might just wire brush it to get the dust off.



conclusion - mig & tig are both great processes and in reality, i use both based on what i am doing. mig is better if you can't bring your work to the bench and are doing auto sheetmetal, or a large job with a lot of lineal feet of weld. tig is best for precision work and welding aluminum, stainless or exotic metals. while it can be used off the bench, it gets tedious with the hand controls and being "out of position" which is upside down or vertical welding. mig is probably a better all around welder.



just so you know i have a lincoln TIG 250 with high freq and water cooler, a lincoln CV-300 that runs the lincoln LN-25 portable wire feeder.



i also have lincoln G7 gas driven welder for field work.



i have used millers and hobarts and find them equally excellent equipment.



this hopefully will give you some idea of what it is you REALLY need.



jim