Competition TiM & DHRA pulling ? for pullers $ fans

[Cumminsman]

red ram, i apologize if i was being harsh on you. didn't read your last post. good luck with getting your truck all tuned in. it's a little different pulling with a manual than and auto, huh? i am learning all over myself.



nick

 

[Redram 1]

re

Hey Nick no problem,I think I have been on a learning curve for the last two years,lol. You guys coming to Schieds,if so we will see ya there. Good luck this year,have a good one -Shawn-

 

[Cumminsman]

redram1, yeah we are coming to Scheid's. reserved my rooms this week. it'll sure be another hot one. i can't wait. should be a great pull. see you there, and good luck this year. nick

 

[Hammer]

are there only 4 people out there that feel like they got kinda screwed? if so i appreciate the support that i have gotten but will have to seriously think long and hard before i return to either DHRA event. thanks

Nick...

As a outsider and being my very first time at Muncie I'll add a few of my comments here and see if it helps you understand. All day Saturday I heard the whining,moaning and groaning of "some" of the "street diesel" competitors as I roamed my way around the show soaking in the goings on. My background here is NOT in diesel events as I do more drag race and dirt race events(both as a owner and a competitor). So here goes what I seen and maybe it will help ease your whine-o-meter from being stressed so much.



IN ANY form of motorsport you participate in the lower classes support the show,period. Lower classes of motorsports competition have been used for support(both payout and fill time)for most all of the bigger classes in any form of motorsports. What the DHRA did to me was nothing out of the ordinary,rather the norm of the business,and business is exactly what this was on the bottom line. Do you feel if by keeping 100% of the payout for your "street" entries in your class and not allowing any of the other higher classes to benefit by the larger draw of your class the others would have shown or pulled?. 100% payback in all classes is a nice dream,but,nowhere in motorsports does that happen. If it did then promoters couldn't afford insurance to put shows on,pay for establishments to run said shows or their advertising and in no way be able entice higher class competitors to show to make their show a product worthy for the consumer. After all,who HAD the biggest draw Nick,the "street diesel" class or the consumers who FILLED the parking lots. I'd have to say the consumers, who, if they didn't see a product worthy of watching would NOT return,period!. Think of that the next time you whine about being screwed in payout,because,without ALL the classes to fill the show the spectator gate draw will suffer severely. No spectators=no show as the promoter will not be able to even make his bottom line to break even.



Personally,being my first TiM I'll say the DHRA staff and event crew did a GREAT job. They provided a product which fit most all who came and allowed for those who have no interest in sled pulling even a chance to have a good time and want to return... ..... Andy

 

[Cumminsman]

hammer (andy)

i think that you are a great guy for letting gene pull your truck. i just couldn't let my puller be pulled by someone else. what if something happened? whose fault would it be?????? but anyway.

as i have already posted. i am thru. not gonna say anything else about it. but i am going to try and give my reply to your questions / comments. i appreciate your input being on the other side of the fence though.



it was my first time at muncie also. i had a great time. it is nice to be able to pull with other highly competitive trucks in the street diesel class. i look forward to making the 500 mile journey again next year.



i was / am not trying to whine. i was / am trying to voice an opinion that was brought to me by more than one person. it has happened in the past and i was / am trying to prevent it from happening in the future. i know that everyone in the country comes to see Scheid's, Haisley's and Enterprise pull. they are the TOP in the country. hell i even go to watch them pull. they are badass trucks! But the prostreet is what i don't understand and this is why. i have great respect for anyone who spends the time and money on building a twin turboed truck. they are bad! but i think a lot of people enjoy seeing trucks that they can buy from the factory and do just a little work to and have them run / pull at that level. i know that the top 15 trucks at muncie are above and beyond what most people would ever consider doing to a "street" truck or anything else for that matter. i have personally been involved in the volunteer work of getting people to a pull. spending hours on the phone with potential pullers explaining the rules and payouts. but the bottom line of putting a pull on is that the pullers are what your audience is coming to see. if you do not have the participants in every class then you will not have the spectator #'s that you want to make any money. every sport is based on someone making money. i never started pulling to make money at it. i did because i really enjoy it. but if you continually leave the "lower" (street) class feeling like they got screwed over. then you will lose all of your entries in the "lower" (street) class. then you have HUGE payouts promised to the upper classes that you have to honor. and if you don't honor them then you look like an ass and end up ******* everyone off. (jmho. ) i am thru breaking balls on here. I want to again personally thank Eric, Gene, Brian and Neal for working very hard at taking diesel motorsprots to the next level. I know the amount of man hours that it takes to make something like this happen. and i do appreciate it. i plan on attending canfield ohio pull to help support the DHRA. it is about a 1500 mile round trip for me that i will be doing with no chance of winning anything. but if it takes the sprot of diesel sled pulling to another level with a bigger audience then i am all for it. hope that i didn't whine to much here. i just don't want anyone to leave a pull that i or the DHRA promotes to feel like they got screwed. (1 of the reasons that i think the purse should be a set rate and not based on the trucks that you have there).

I am thru whining (*****ing)

i do support the DHRA and do plan on attending pulls in the future. (i. e. canfield, oh and terra huate, in) Hope to see everyone there

thanks, nick

 

[DHRA]

Nick,

Thanks for the post. I do take it as constructive criticism, if not, the DHRA wouldn't re-construct. If the re-constructed method doesn't work at Scheid's, we will tweak it until we have it just right. Thanks for your input as it is very much appreciated. A even bigger thanks for you coming out and showing your support by pulling in our event. Everyone has been instrumental in growing the diesel sports, you should take the credit.

 

[Cooker]

I don't know much about the money aspect of the event, but I would just like to say that I thought the format of the pulls was much better this year than in years past. It seemed much more efficient and was overall more pleasureable to watch. Also we got out of there much eariler this year allowing for more time in the parking lot at Lee's Sorry for jumping in on this thread but I just wanted to compliment the DHRA for the positive changes that I observed that were made to the event.

 

[Cumminsman]

eric, i will be at canfield, oh and terra huate, in. hope that it works out well at both pulls. hpefully the outdoor channel will be impressed.



cooker, thank you for posting on here. i welcome all comments.



here is another opinion from rob thomas posted on

diesel-central.com :



Chris, Scott, and some others, just to clarify... .

I don't think it's the money in general, that Nick has a problem with. I believe that it's the fact that, for quite some time prior to Muncie, the DHRA kept repeating a $7500 purse, and $1000 to win in the street class. Neither of which came true.



Yes I know the purse was dependant on 150 trucks, but then they limited truck/drivers to one class only, if they did not limit pullers to one class, they probably would have made the 150 trucks. So the way I see it, it was only a ploy to get people to show, and then renig on the deal. That may have not been the intent, but.....



The point is, if you say the purse it "xxx" amount, then people expect it to be "xxx" amount.



Seems to me that Eric was in this sorta positon a while back drag racing, he was promiced a certain amount, and wasn't paid, pretty sure he's still hot about that, why is it so wrong for someone else to be ****** about the same thing? Or must be labeled as a "whiner" or "baby"?



this was the reply from eric on diesel-central.com :



Actually Rob, you are correct, and what burnt my ass about that was that it wasn't contingent on the number of attendees. Ours was contingent. But you didn't come to Muncie, so you have NO opinion, period.



this is from rob again:



"But you didn't come to Muncie, so you have NO opinion, period. "

Exactly what I expected to hear from you Eric. Unless I paid you, I can't say anything. I have been at Munice the 2 years prior, and said nothing.



So if someone doesn't say, "how great the DHRA is", or "how great the show turned out to be, good job guys", you don't want to hear it? Can't you handle a little constructive criticism? I don't think I said anything out of line, yet.



Like I said, it isn't about the money, it's about the ploy to bring in trucks to pull, and not backing up the purse claim. Eric your a salesman, that's what you do, I do believe you are for bringing the diesel sport to new levels, but not unless it beifits you along the way. I do think it was wrong for you to say, " you are right, I got caught up in the fact that we were able to payout more than we ever have. "



Sort of a smart ass remark (however,expected)don't you think? You make it sound like the pullers should be thanking you for paying what you did. IF you had said " we will be paying more than last year. . " I'm sure none of this would even be talked about, everyone would be happy, and you be a god, but that's not what happend.



Yes, this is being drug out longer than neesesary, and I believe Nick only meant to bring it to the DHRA's attention. Since no one can say anything negitive anymore, without being labled as a whiner he takes heat for it. **** it, I don't give a ****, I'll say my opinion, I'm not a ****** panzy.



Not that it matters since I am a nobody, but I wasn't in Munice for other reasons, it had nothing to do with sled pulls, EEP, the DHRA, or the diesel industry in any way, shape, or form. In fact, only a very few people knew I wasn't going to be attending,(and they knew why) for the sole reason so that people wouldn't come to the silly conclusion that I was "boycotting".





Gene, I saw a post of yours on the TDR where you said... .....



"The "75" number was put on each class, as a MAXIMUM number of trucks allowed. In case we were overwhelmed with trucks, we could enforce that rule, stop sign ups, so we wouldn't be pulling trucks at 4:00 am.

The purse was never based off that number.



What the purse was based off of, was 150 entries, all classes put together, with a $50 entry fee.



Where did 150 come from?"





So where did the purse number come from? A hat? Out of thin air? What was is based on?





I say forget the money, let the street class pull for free, since no one cares about them anyway, they can just be a time filler before the other 2 classes full 'o trucks pull, just give them a few trophys for beatin the hell outta they're daily driver trucks for no apparent reason, or appriciation.











*** This post was edited by Rob Thomas on 6/13/2004. ***

 

[Turbo Thom]

I will have to say I have some what following this thread but the last post has me rubbing my hairless head. Just what is he saying? I am totally lost.



. . Preston. .

 

[Cumminsman]

preston, here is the rest of that story.



http://www.diesel-central.com/forums/thread.asp?ForumID=33&TopicID=2253&page=2

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Cumminsman

gene, you did a great job for being your first pull.

sew your seat back on. i am thru.

thanks, nick

??????????????????????????



Guess not.



Eric agreed to everything you wanted Nick, now you keep posting after you said you were "thru. "



What is your point?

 

[Cumminsman]

gene, i am not whining about this. just trying to let people know that i am NOT the only one with this opinion. i didn't come in first and could have easily not even been in the money. but the inconsistency of the stories is was is tripping me out. here's a few post from you that mite refresh your memory on what i am talking about.



Ok , I have heard this numerous times, even from my own tech guys.

It is incorrect.



The "75" number was put on each class, as a MAXIMUM number of trucks allowed. In case we were overwhelmed with trucks, we could enforce that rule, stop sign ups, so we wouldn't be pulling trucks at 4:00 am.

The purse was never based off that number.



What the purse was based off of, was 150 entries, all classes put together, with a $50 entry fee.



Where did 150 come from?



Last year, there were nearly 200 entries, as trucks were allowed to enter 2 of the 4 classes.

Only 147 made it to the hook.

Meaning, a mess of trucks broke before they could make their second hook.



This year, we refined the classes to 3, allowed only one class and still had 95 hooks in qualifying. I did expect more, but a few of trucks did not come because of rule changes, and many more were not completed.

Many, many trucks, Muncie was their first pull of the season.



Looking back, we maybe should have based the purse on 100, instead of150 before hand, but I like to be optimistic.

Anyway, the entry fees were taken and divided evenly among the three classes, with Street paying back 10 places, Pro, 5 and Mod 3.



I thought going back 10 in street would be more fair, because there were more trucks. But evidently most don't want that. (except for 6,7,8,9,10. )



this was from you. the payout was NOT based on a 75 truck per class basis. right?



now eric says :

Actually Rob, you are correct, and what burnt my ass about that was that it wasn't contingent on the number of attendees. Ours was contingent.



so my question is was it contingent or was it not.



you can reply if you want gene. but this IS my last post on this thread. sorry for all of the *****. i'll see ya'll in canfield if i am still invited.



nick

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Cumminsman



so my question is was it contingent or was it not.

Yes. But it had nothing to do with 75 trucks.



Your mixing Thomas's drivel into this about a drag race, that wasn't even DHRA.



Everything is explained above, reread it.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Nick, Eric was talking about a drag racing event that we attended a couple of years ago where the purse wasn't contingent on the number of attendees. We have it on videotape as the final round was about to start (with Eric staging) that there was a $5000 purse for this race.

 

[fest3er]

Nick,



I think it would be fair to say that the only solid purse fact that was mentioned at any time was that all of the pulling entry fees were going completely and directly into the purse. All other number mentioned and bandied about were 'for illustrational purposes only'. Without knowing the total number of competitors, the actual purses could not be specified beforehand.



I think this can be attributed to miscommunication. Sometimes we think we are being clear and concise, but the words just don't work out right. We will do our best to be clearer and more accurate in the future.



N