Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Time For A VP44!?!?

[bmack]

I have done a fair amount of reading here on TDR. Looks like my VP44 is toast. I have noticed intermittent unresponsive throttle, mostly at highway speeds going up slight grades (with or without C/C set), but last couple of times at or near idle. Flooring the accelerator momentarily has, so far got things moving again. Seems to have gotten worse as summer has come on.



2002 DC QC 4x4, Auto, 80,000



Throwing the following Codes:

PCU: P0500, P1693

ECO: P0216, P1693



Could the VSS (P0500) cause the P0216 code?



Can I be pretty certain a new VP44 is in my trucks near future?





Assuming that answer is 'Yes', next questions are what is the best VP44, I don't want to do this again.



If I am putting in a new VP44 I am replacing the stock Transfer Pump, so what is the most reliable model / setup?



I have read ideal pressure for VP44 is 13. 5 PSI, is this true? (That is about double what I have had since the truck was new)



Finally, How hard is it to swap out the VP44, are any special tools or skills required?



Thanks in advance for opinions and assistance.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

bmack,

Hate to give you the bad news, but, yep, sounds like a VP is in order. Scheid has a good one. It isn't a bad job to do, just takes 4-5 hours the first time. Make sure you have an injection pump gear puller and injection line short wrench for #5 and #6. To me the 13. 5psi is baloney, my AirDog has been reliably putting out 19psi for 280,000 miles with no issues. PM for an AirDog dealer.

Do a search for VP remove/install instructions, there are some good threads about that.

You're finally catching up on where the rest of us have been before!

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[JLandry]

Can I be pretty certain a new VP44 is in my trucks near future?

Hold on there...



A P0216 DTC is not a guarantee your VP44 is dying.



According to the Dodge Powertrain Diagnostic Manual, it could be caused by any one of the following items:

P0216-FUEL INJECTION PUMP TIMING FAILURE

When Monitored:

Ignition on.​

Set Condition:

Engine speed >300 RPM, fuel command 5mm3/str, timing command must be within a certain window.​

POSSIBLE CAUSES

OTHER DTC’S (P0336, P1287 or P1690)

FUEL INJECTION PUMP GEAR ALIGNMENT

FUEL FILTER RESTRICTION

TRANSFER PUMP INLET RESTRICTION

FUEL INJECTION PUMP​

Have you replaced your fuel filter?

Have you checked the fuel pressure at the VP44 inlet?



Best regards,



John L.

 

[bmack]

Well there may be hope.

Fuel Filter was replaced about 6k ago, at that time Fuel pressure was 7PSI (at idle). Will check pressure/replace filter/check pressure in the morning.

My understanding is if the VP44 is subjected to low pressure, failure is sure to follow. Hopefully, that is not true.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

John,

I agree that an 0216 does not necessarily mean "automatic VP", however, the symptoms Bill relayed were what I was keying off of. Could it be other things? Sure! Is it likely the VP? Sure! It doesn't not sound like the APPS is the problem here. The "dead pedal" is almost a "dead giveaway" from my experiences.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Bill,

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge mounted in the truck where it can be observed while driving? If so, where is it tapped into the fuel line? What is the psi when under load and under steady highway speed?

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[JLandry]

Fuel Filter was replaced about 6k ago, at that time Fuel pressure was 7PSI (at idle).

That's actually very LOW fuel pressure and could be the cause of your P0216 DTC right there. If it's 7 psi at idle, in all likelihood it's at or near zero under heavy load. You need to test the fuel pressure while driving to see how low it's getting.



The ABSOLUTE lowest pressure you ever want to see is 5 psi at Wide Open Throttle... more is better of course.



You probably shouldn't subject the VP44 to much over 20 psi fuel pressure, but unless you're running an after market lift pump system, you won't have to worry about that kind of fuel pressure!



Once you know what the full range of fuel pressures are, you can come up with a plan to correct it. You may be in need of a new lift pump or something more drastic.

Will check pressure/replace filter/check pressure in the morning.

It's worth noting that one tank of dirty fuel can clog up a filter and reduce fuel pressure to the VP44. And speaking from personal experience, it may not even look dirty when you pull it out. It couldn't hurt to replace it again to try and eliminate this problem. It's a lot cheaper than a VP44.

My understanding is if the VP44 is subjected to low pressure, failure is sure to follow. Hopefully, that is not true.

Generally yes, but it's probably subject to a matter of how much abuse the VP44 was subjected to... like how low was the pressure, for how long, and under what conditions.



Take it one step at a time.



Good luck,



John L.

 

[Stark_Ent9802]

If its a stock 02. Then it is still proably under warrenty. I know my truck is for another 14 months. When i bought my 02 dodge was offering the extended 7 years 100k powertrain warrenty. Might save some big bucks.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It can make a big difference WHERE you are metering fuel PSI - best place (in my opinion) is right at the VP-44 fuel inlet, and should be monitored at full load, WOT - since that is where the lowest PSI will be seen - and THAT is where you still want to see significant PSI, at or better than 10 PSI is a decent yardstick...



Monitoring PSI at some point before the fuel filter, and only at idle, can be VERY misleading!

 

[bmack]

Not looking good

Sorry for the delayed update, have been super busy.



Well I have had to do a lot of messing around, but it appears I still have an issue. I am checking Fuel Pressure at the VP44. I have a mechanical Fuel Pressure gauge and the isolator was leaking on the gauge side causing it to stop showing pressure after a few days. I had let it go longer than I should have, so I replaced the isolator and found that the fuel pump was at a very low pressure (<5). I replaced the fuel pump and filter now getting 20 PSI at idle and 13 at WOT, measured at the VP44.



Driving home tonight I again got no pedal response, until floored. No check engine light. Good Fuel Pressure and all gauges showing normal. Have the following codes



P PCU

500 - No Vehichle Speed Sensor Signal

1693 - Dtc code detected



P ECU

234 - Turbo Boost limit exceeded.

216 - injection pump timing failure

1693 - Dtc code detected



So I am guessing the VP44 will have to be replaced, though (for now this is not a huge big deal it is a very intermittent problem). Will thi likely get progressively worse or might it just quit all at once?



Can I assume that 500 code is not a part of this equation? Or could it have something to do with my symptoms? Could a dying VP44 cause a code 500, or do I need to replace the speed sensor / check connections? I am assuming that the Speed sensor could not cause an code 216 since vehicle speed has nothing to do with the engine timing.



From my reading a VP44 going bad can cause a code 234 and code 216 is normally a good sign that the VP44 is dying.



Thanks again for your input.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

\Will thi likely get progressively worse or might it just quit all at once?

YES!!!



Godspeed,

Trent

 

[JLandry]

Driving home tonight I again got no pedal response, until floored. No check engine light. Good Fuel Pressure and all gauges showing normal. Have the following codes



P PCU

500 - No Vehichle Speed Sensor Signal

1693 - Dtc code detected



P ECU

234 - Turbo Boost limit exceeded.

216 - injection pump timing failure

1693 - Dtc code detected

Bill,



Just to clarify, you haven't cleared the trouble codes using a code scanner since this whole things started... correct? If so, then any or all of these trouble codes might be left over from prior events making it hard to sort out which ones are current and which have been around for awhile. The proper thing to do next would be to clear all the codes, drive the truck until the problem reoccurs, then immediately scan for new trouble codes.

So I am guessing the VP44 will have to be replaced, though (for now this is not a huge big deal it is a very intermittent problem).

Now I may be wrong, but I'm not yet convinced it's the VP44.



I'm wondering if it could be a problem with the APPS (Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor). If the ECM looses the "NOT IDLE" signal from APPS, then you'd get exactly the symptoms you've experienced.



A new OEM APPS assembly can cost from $350 to $500 depending on where you buy it, but if you contact TDR member timbo and he can fix you up with a *much better* APPS from Williams Controls for a fraction of that cost. I'm using one on my truck right now and it works great.



Now if it turns out I'm wrong, you can either keep the original APPS as a spare or sell it on eBay for probably what the Williams APPS will cost from timbo.

Can I assume that 500 code is not a part of this equation?

I can't see how they would be related. If you clear the trouble codes and this one comes back, it can be investigated later after you solve the "dead-pedal" issue.



Best regards,



John L.

 

[WFyfe]

"Can I assume that 500 code is not a part of this equation?" If my memory is correct I think that is just a code for tire spin/ burnouts? I may be wrong. I seen that code all the time during winter months.