2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Time for my first track bar. What is the latest rage?

[0013]

as i said earlier--i have one of don's bars. im very happy with it. havent had any issues with it flexing, giving, breaking, etc. i wheel fairly often (depending on duty requirements) and its held up great. so far i have 7K on it. ive also owned a DT trackbar as their made here in prescott, az. I like don's design better due to the bracket be welded instead of bolted and its definatley more stout than a dt. just my . 02 have a good one... .

 

[EBottema]

Yes 0013.

DT makes a nice track bar but their bracket is junk. The owner, Dave, is a jerk after he didnt want to help with my problems. If you get the bracket and beef it up, DT would be the best IMO

 

[snowracer69]

Thuren- Not to bash you or your design but

Why stop now?

I'm just frustrated how many companies sell track bars that are untested and unsafe

Oh, I see you didn't stop...

DT makes a nice track bar but their bracket is junk. The owner, Dave, is a jerk after he didnt want to help with my problems.

NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS READING THE ABOVE ABOUT DAVE: WE STILL ONLY KNOW ONE SIDE OF THE STORY!



Back to your regularly scheduled programming. :-laf

 

[EBottema]

Oh, I see you didn't stop...



NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS READING THE ABOVE ABOUT DAVE: WE STILL ONLY KNOW ONE SIDE OF THE STORY!

I'm not going to stop until I see a trackbar that is good enough to sell to the public that is not unsafe or flexes. Do you own DT or are you friends with DAve at DT? His side of the story goes: He called, complained and I told him that maybe the crushsleeves are too small for the frame. End of story, he didn't care and didnt want to help. He sold me a track bar and now he has his money and I'm old news. I've had problems with other products before and they have always been helpful unlike dave. For example, those sleeves in the DT kit are not even crush sleeves. Why is he selling a track bar kit if he does not even know was a crush sleeve is?

Nobody needs to hear his side of the story as there are many others with the flexing problem, until he takes responsibility for his faulty product he is useless.

 

[SnoKing]

Well back to the original question. As most know, I have the 3rd Gen track bar from www.solidsteel.biz via RIP. Today I had to take the 5th wheel down to Marysville for some service work. This was the first time I towed it since I installed the 3rd Gen track bar. I have to say that I was running down the freeway steering with one thumb pressed against the face of the wheel. Truck and trailer drove like they were on rails. Of coarse I just installed new Michelin XPS RIB all steel ply tires on the trailer yesterday, junking the Chinese ones that came on the trailer. SNOKING

 

[NVR FNSH]

It also relocates the joint so that the forces seen through the joint can be as perpendicular as possible to the bar correcting the problem with the OEM design.

Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm not seeing how the uniball is any change versus the factory tie-rod end version.



Brian

 

[THUREN]

Can you explain what you mean by this? I'm not seeing how the uniball is any change versus the factory tie-rod end version.



Brian

It's similar geometry but the uniball cup is more flat trying to fix the lame angle that dodge put in the frame bracket being the main flaw with the factory design. If you look at a stock track bar the tie rod end has about a 45 degree angle in it which puts verticle loads through it. Not good on a joint designed to only see lateral loads and I still don't understand how Dodge let that slide for almost 10 years. Mine is not at the "perfect" angle but at a better angle, coupled with a very precision bearing, should last a long time. The joint is so big that when the truck is bottomed out is is CLOOOOOOSE to the diff cover. Thats why it is technically still in testing. I want to try to get it to rub and I hope it doesn't... .

 

[NVR FNSH]

I think I 'see' what you're trying to describe - hence the reason for the bolt being canted relative to the nominal center of the uniball in your picture. Sounds like the solution would be forged 'adapter' that located off the factory tapered hole and had a ~40deg bend to get the uniball mounting stud back to vertical.



Brian

 

[SnoKing]

I think I 'see' what you're trying to describe - hence the reason for the bolt being canted relative to the nominal center of the uniball in your picture. Sounds like the solution would be forged 'adapter' that located off the factory tapered hole and had a ~40deg bend to get the uniball mounting stud back to vertical.



Brian

Or you can use the 3rd gen track bar and then this angle issue does not exist anymore. Title of thread "Time for my first track bar. What is the latest rage?"



On the 3rd gen "type" bar, this joint is turned 90 degrees, so that angle of the stock 2nd gen end is no longer an issue. Pivot point is parrallel with the frame rail. Why not figure a way to turn the uniball 90 degrees also, you are trying to use it in the direction of limited movement, where as at 90 degrees to that, it has unlimited movement and can swing the full 360 degrees (of course 360 is not need here). Lift height would be less of an issue also.



I would also note that having the DSS spanning between the frame rails has to help the stability of the front end of the rails. You can see the DSS in the first picture below.



SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

In this photo, you will see what I am talking about, not only does it turn the axis, but it also moves it forward on the frame, allowing for Differential cover clearance. SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

The other view. SNOKING

 

[Alphacowboy]

In this photo, you will see what I am talking about, not only does it turn the axis, but it also moves it forward on the frame, allowing for Differential cover clearance. SNOKING

problem I see with that (mainly for people who take it off the beaten path alot) you flex the front out, I mean stuff that tire on the drivers side, it looks to me that the tie-rod would smack the trackbar bracket? Dont get me wrong, that design is damn good though.

 

[SnoKing]

problem I see with that (mainly for people who take it off the beaten path alot) you flex the front out, I mean stuff that tire on the drivers side, it looks to me that the tie-rod would smack the trackbar bracket? Dont get me wrong, that design is damn good though.

I just measured 2. 5 inches from bump stop to axle and 3. 25+ between TBK bracket and tie rod. Should be OK. SNOKING

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Let's not fight about this, let's get all of the good ideas out there in here. While the 3rd gen track bar fix looks like a great one it won't work for me, I have a Fisher minute mount plow and the plow mounts are right where the 3rd gen bracket goes. For me the ideal setup would be using the stock mounting location, thus the Thuren bar seems to be my best option. I also have the DSS, but in order to make it work I had to take off my plow mounts and do some modifications to make everything fit together nicely. What should have been a 1-2 hour job took me 10-15 hours working on my back in the driveway fixing the poor job of the plow installers and then modifying my plow mounts, I don't want to do that again for the track bar.

 

[THUREN]

I'm going to give my 2 cents on the 3rd gen. conversion. Mind you that I know A LOT of people love it and I have never helled one in my hands. Just giving and opinion on the design and function with the full intent of having a discussion and not a bashing contest...



I'm going to just simply state a few of my OPINIONS to make it easy...



-The track bar is a SUSPENSION part but in reality it has more to do with, and in this case, should be considered, a steering part. I feel that rubber has no buisness being used in any steering part especially where it directly relates to the feel of the entire system. Being that if the track bar moves just a little bit the movement relays into the entire system not to mention the track bar has to hold the truck centered. Thats why with just a simple gust of wind or a tire being out of ballance a bad track bar relates into HORRIBLE steering... .



-I don't KNOW but I can bet that the bracket flexes a little bit if you were to do the stationary truck, steering wheel, "back-n-forth" test. The bracket seems very thick to the eye (3/8"???) but the way it bolts on doesn't look sufficient to support such a high load. It would be interesting to mount a dial indicator on the frame with the pointer on the axle somewhere to see how much side-to-side movement there really is in the system. If any most is probably from difflection in the rubber bushings anyway... ...



-The more the truck is lifted the more actual impact force the track bar sees. So with rubber bushings everytime you hit a bump the rubber will difflect causing feedback in the wheel. I have actually been approched to design/produce a repacement track bar for lifted 3rd gen trucks which had death wobble as soon as they were lifted and larger tires were installed... Trucks had very low miles so everything was new...



Again... . I'm not bashing but just giving my personal opinion on mainly RUBBER, even polyurethane, being used in a steering system... .

 

[jrobinson2]

THUREN

You mentioned the clearance to the diff cover. For what its worth, the lukes link on my truck firmly hit the diff cover before I ground it for clearance, it is 2-3/8 diameter and 2-1/4 long from the frame mount.

Also I think a replacement that does not require drilling the frame mount is almost a necessity, lots of guys won't be willing to make a permanent change like drilling out the stock mount.



Jared

 

[jrobinson2]

I just measured 2. 5 inches from bump stop to axle and 3. 25+ between TBK bracket and tie rod. Should be OK. SNOKING

3. 25 - 2. 5 = . 75 compression of the bumpstop before contact, in measuring the dust marks on the shaft of my King shocks I have seen 1" into the stock bump stop on a moderately hard hit.



Jared

 

[SnoKing]

3. 25 - 2. 5 = . 75 compression of the bumpstop before contact, in measuring the dust marks on the shaft of my King shocks I have seen 1" into the stock bump stop on a moderately hard hit.



Jared

I don't jump my truck!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beside I will talking about the rubber bump stop on the frame rail which has just over an inch of hard rubber sticking out of its mount. I highly doubt that in will compress that far. For the average Joe Blow the 3 gen track bar is an ideal solution to a crummy DC design. SNOKING

 

[jrobinson2]

I don't jump my truck!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beside I will talking about the rubber bump stop on the frame rail which has just over an inch of hard rubber sticking out of its mount. I highly doubt that in will compress that far. For the average Joe Blow the 3 gen track bar is an ideal solution to a crummy DC design. SNOKING

Thats the same bumpstop I'm talking about, I'm not talking about jumping just a hard hit like a large pothole or rock. The exposed shaft on my shocks makes it easy to measure the maximum travel just by checking the dust marks and I have seen close to 1" more travel on the shaft than the distance to the stop, it does take a good hard hit to get that much compression but certainly not a jump. I'm not really claiming this is a problem on most trucks just that things are extremely tight in this area and the rubber bumper compresses a lot more than it seems it should



Jared

 

[EBottema]

Jason-



One positive thing about the DT bar is that it is mounted forward keeping the track bar from ever hitting the diff cover