Time to change oil. What's the deal on CK-4 oil?

[Killgore]

It's time for an oil change on my '06 - 5.9L, so I hustle on over to Advanced Auto and see the only Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 carries a CK-4 designation. It is supposedly backwards compatible but I'm leery with all this new-fangled foolishness. I've always used Valvoline and need a little help.

 

[GrantP]

I just ran into the same issue but I went ahead and used the Valvoline CK-4. I do regular oil analysis and I'll certainly be doing another on this oil when it's due. I really wish we could get an updated version of John Martin's excellent oil article from years ago with this new spec and samples.

 

[Killer223]

just find a CK, SM rated oil, not SN. the SN is where they took all the goodies out of it.

 

[GrantP]

Unfortunately the Valvoline 5w-40 synthetic is also SN rated.

 

[Killer223]

Most of the synthetic 5/40 will be SN, the normal 15/40 being SM.
I'm sure any clean oil rated for diesels will be just fine.

 

[Killgore]

I certainly appreciate the input from each of you. I religiously pull samples and send to Blackstone, and will continue to watch all of this closely. I need to place an order with Geno's tomorrow and if Robert Patton is in, I will get his take on all of this. I think I remember something being written concerning the 5W40 synthetic and avoiding its' use in older engines. I don't use synthetic because I'm located in a sweltering climate, it appears a little thin in my older engine (260,000 miles on the clock), and the usage goes up in comparison to the dino 15W40.

 

[GrantP]

I'm sure any clean oil rated for diesels will be just fine.

That was my logic as well. This is the first time I've ever run synthetic in any of my diesels and I only bought it because it was the same price as conventional at the time. I'm debating sending in a sample of clean engine oil to Blackstone to figure out what is "in the package" but I'm probably over thinking it. I think I'll just run it for 5k or so and find out.

 

[Killgore]

I normally run about 7,500 between oil changes. I'm a full-timer pulling an 18,000 lb. fifth-wheel.

 

[Killgore]

A quick phone call to Geno's got some stuff headed my way and then I asked to speak with Robert Patton concerning his opinion on the new CK-4 designation. He said to use it, you don't have any choice, and it is backwards compatible. In fact, he said John Martin has written an article for the next issue of TDR concerning the new designation and contained in that article is a story that is going to knock the socks off a sacred cow, the relationship between a major manufacturer of Diesel engines and the oil that they recommend. Not wishing to steal John's thunder, I won't go into the details but now agree with Killer's statement that the best course of action is to use the cheapest oil available that meets the API, CK-4 rating. Of course I will continue to conduct OA's and change my oil on a regular schedule, paying attention to both mileage and time, and TBN's, but the curtain has been pulled back and I've seen the Wizard of Oz. Don't miss the next issue of TDR!

- Ed

 

[GrantP]

Well I'll disagree with Robert a little bit, there are some other choices still available but they are not easily found on the average parts store shelf. I was hoping for an update from John Martin, glad it's in the works.

 

[Killgore]

I picked up the Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 at Tractor Supply Company for $14.95/gallon (CK-4). I could've bought their brand name, Traveler's 15W40, in a 2.5 gal. container for around $21. My dear wife asked how strong my faith was. Put another way, how cheap am I? I couldn't do it. Anybody using Traveler's and checking with an oil analysis and showing good TBN's?

- Ed

 

[Killer223]

The travellers is a fine oil, i've used it many times to close to the 400 hr mark,
one sample was 7.8 tbn and one was 6.? something... use with confidence. it's all we run in the tractors, can't beat the price when on sale, get the 5 gal pales and it's close to 8$ gallon.
it's all i run in my 04 now. it's packaged by warren distributors, same people that make walmarts supertech, and a number of other house brands of oil. http://www.pqiadata.org/Travellers15W40.html

 

[Killgore]

I suspect I should sit down and start eating some crow. For years I have religiously sought to comply with the recommended oil and when asked I would recommend it to others that had questions. My pontifications appear to have been just blowing the same smoke that some marketing types came up with over good bourbon and Cuban cigars years ago. Thanks, Killer!

- Ed

 

[Killer223]

I should add, most engines could are less what oil is in them long as it meets the spec required, hat said make sure you run an oil ok for your climate. But the vast majority of us can run the cheapest stuff available and change it when recommended and be fine, if you want to run an oil longer than recommend, you might get into the higher grades of oil,
Short cold trips is what's hard in engines and oil, it's best to get them up to temp, and for a good long while, hence why OTR truckers get over 30k on an oil change. And over a million miles on an engine with normal Dino oil.
Clean oil, changed when it should be. And your engine will be happy.

 

[Killgore]

That's pretty much what Robert Patton said to the letter, and I certainly agree with the statement that if you're going to crank it, you need to run it. Years ago when I was OTR, I never shut the engine off when I had a load, probably cause I had doubts on a re-start, LOL. Either way, they need to be used for what they were designed for to avoid the pitfalls of contamination and condensation.

 

[mwilson]

I should add, most engines could are less what oil is in them long as it meets the spec required, hat said make sure you run an oil ok for your climate. But the vast majority of us can run the cheapest stuff available and change it when recommended and be fine, if you want to run an oil longer than recommend, you might get into the higher grades of oil,
Short cold trips is what's hard in engines and oil, it's best to get them up to temp, and for a good long while, hence why OTR truckers get over 30k on an oil change. And over a million miles on an engine with normal Dino oil.
Clean oil, changed when it should be. And your engine will be happy.

As an example regarding short and / or cold usage even though I am going to reference gasoline engines....

GM hands down has the best oil change algorithm known to modern man. It is right on from my experiences....

2008 GMC Yukon 5.3L with 5 quart oil pan...vehicle usage is minimal with maybe one trip to town a week and the occasional 130 mile round trip to Bangor. Oil life remaining when I started it Sunday was 50% with about 1200 miles on the current oil and filter...

2006 Cadillac DTS 4.6L Northstar with 7.5 quart oil pan...usage is daily, 5 days a week at least with a minimum of 125 miles per day at speeds from 65-80 mph. I usually chicken out and change the oil before the oil monitor says to do so, Why you ask??? Because the accumulated mileage will be at least 10,000 miles, sometimes more. In the summer with no idling I have seen it go 12,000 miles before the monitor goes off. Oil is still a light brown at that point. Getting that moisture burned off and that motor operating at temperature makes all of the difference in the world for both gasoline OR diesel engines..........

 

[amsoilman]

CK-4 Oils are the latest in the (API) AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE Performance ratings, and are 100 percent "backwards compatible" to all the former API ratings for Diesel Engines. The new oils that can pass the CK-4 tests are much better at protecting the engines. There are also two new tests for this CK-4 Performance rating ie; Mack T13 Test and Cat Aeration test. In the AMSOIL "Signature Series" Diesel oil, there is 6 times better protection over the previous CJ-4 Oil.

 

[Tuesdak]

A quick phone call to Geno's got some stuff headed my way and then I asked to speak with Robert Patton concerning his opinion on the new CK-4 designation. He said to use it, you don't have any choice, and it is backwards compatible. In fact, he said John Martin has written an article for the next issue of TDR concerning the new designation and contained in that article is a story that is going to knock the socks off a sacred cow, the relationship between a major manufacturer of Diesel engines and the oil that they recommend. Not wishing to steal John's thunder, I won't go into the details but now agree with Killer's statement that the best course of action is to use the cheapest oil available that meets the API, CK-4 rating. Of course I will continue to conduct OA's and change my oil on a regular schedule, paying attention to both mileage and time, and TBN's, but the curtain has been pulled back and I've seen the Wizard of Oz. Don't miss the next issue of TDR!

- Ed

First off I salute you for being brave enough to go first and look forward to your UOA results.

They need to run some UOA taking their own advice and see how much variance running the "on sale oil", a different brand every month, has on the UOA. Especially an older sooty dirty IDI engine. If you are doing UOA it's best to stay with the same brand. Specifically to the Cummins engines a different additive package, a common commodity or not, can wash copper off the oil cooler, harmless, but it shoots your copper levels through the roof in an oil sample. Switching to synthetic also can have the same effect.

You do have choices in what oil you run. Strange they eliminate the older oils today when they used to keep the older spec around in the past. The "perfected" CJ-4 is still around if you look for it. At the moment there is 15w-40 CJ-4 Mystik oil on the shelf at my local (TSC) Tractor Supply store and AMSOIL still offers the older spec. (O'Reilly's still has the CJ-4 15w-50 Mystik I run in the hot summer to keep the idle oil pressure up on an old engine.) As you are going first I suggest you run some oil samples early, like 3000 miles, and see how it's holding up. (Samples don't mean you have to change the oil, just use a vampire to pull a sample out of the dipstick tube.) Personally I have ruined CJ4 engine oil at 3000 miles, scuffed pistons from oil failure, and watched the CJ4 formula change from demands of fleet managers who were NOT getting the extended drain intervals like they were with the older oils. their past articles were COMPLETELY LACKING in information about this reformulation specific to Rotella. If that's not a warm enough fuzzy walk around a shop that's rebuilding Cummins engines and look at the ugly worn out flat tappet camshafts. Yes, there is a real risk to new oil. Keep the risk of the oil needing to be reformulated like it was in the past in mind should history repeat itself.

After looking at all the torn up camshafts I would really be interested in how "additives" specifically Lucas oil Zinc "Engine Break-In Oil Additive - TB Zinc Plus" interacts with the new additive packages in the Ck oils. From my samples it appears fine with the CJ oil and delivers results with increased zinc for my new camshaft break in.

Filters are more important than the oil and oil brand as a filter failure can instantly ruin your engine. It's time and has been suggested by other TDR members as well that a new oil filter study be done showing how many "relabeled" Orange Cans of Death are out there now. They need to cut up "used" oil filters as part of the article and see if they held up to use as some filters tear after 3000 miles while bragging that "failure is not an option".

 

[Killgore]

I don't take any short-cuts when it comes to filters. In fact, I go out of my way to use Fleetguard. Yes, several years ago I tried a different brand of oil from the Valvoline I normally use and noticed the copper went up, and I played around with their synthetic and noticed the same thing. I've always heard (true or false?) that changing brands would introduce different additives (detergents) that might 'clean' or break lose some of the sludge, etc. This may have been in my subconscious yesterday when I was looking at the Traveller's. In either case, pulling a sample and getting it tested is one sure-fire way of checking both engine health and TBN's even though I'm not looking for an extended interval on my oil changes.

Mike, obviously I wish all of us had monitors that were indeed more accurate. Shucks, I don't even get an indication of an oil change on the relic in my signature. What you posted is a good indication of what's going on with the grocery getters though. And, the back and forth between Sergio and DeLorenzo that I've been following in the TDR magazines is probably pointing to the fact that things are not improving. In fact, if I'm understanding everything, if I ever buy another Ram, I may have to deal with Kia, etc.

 

[DaveHess]

Kia???? That's a joke ..... right?