Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Timing Adjust ??

[illflem]

The injection detector/light method is great for checking your timing but for adjusting it the dial indicator is easier/faster. With a light you still have to find TDC and the light won't tell you how much you have changed the timing till you put everything back together and start the engine.

 

[SRehberg]

I own a '96 (Calif) with the timing data on the plate indicating 13*, so I have to assume that is what it is set at, I've been the only owner. I see everyone bumping the timing to 15. 5* and 16*, then I read later on the head gaskets start to give issues. Or is the gasket issue when you start adding plates, injectors etc. ? This '96 seems pretty tired when a trailer is hooked to it, and the clock only has 48K on it. Think it would be advisable to kick the timing up?

 

[qkoop]

I think 15. 5 degrees timing is quite a conservative and safe place for slight fuel mods and even for stock for better fuel milage but go above that and stock head gaskets might be an issue. I had over 400,000 k. ms of 400 hp and a propane boost on my stock head gasket before it gave out and i blame propane, not timing.

 

[illflem]

I've advanced the timing to 15. 5 on a few stock trucks, no problems just an improvement in power and fuel economy. Reason the dealer and Cummins won't increase the timing is purely for emissions law reasons.

 

[bighammer]

You CAN adjust the timing with my setup. You shoot it to see where it's at, then you adjust it, then shoot it again to confirm.

 

[SRehberg]

Sounds like it will help the truck which it needs. I have been a little aprehensive to mess with it, knowing the gear is just a press fit and can slip etc. Is it an expensive shop adjust? The truck seems to really flatten out at about 2000-2100 rpm as well, so it needs something. Thanks for the great information.

 

[1dslram]

A shop will charge between $70. 00 and $150. 00. You can but the tools and do it yourself for $250. 00. It is easy to do and gets easier to do after a couple times. The setting of the timing depends on the mods on your truck and how you intend to use it. The basic timing for a 12V is 15. 5*-16. 5* if you are heavily modified you can use more advance.

Bruce

 

[pathaymond]

Do what you like!

My experience has been dreadfull because of what several cummins techs have described as improper timing settings.

My story is long so I will not tell it But Right now My motor is in many pieces due to what I am told by experts as improper timing! the dealer to the performance shop caused my engine to self destruct @ 104K

If you want to set your timing I would advise you stay within cummins specs. which I understand to be 1 * max over the listed timing. Either do it yourself or find a good shop that will use the proper tools and procedures.

I am sure many will disagree with my position. But when you have a engine in pieces and the experts the ones who made the engine tell you its a timing problem that has cost you lots of money and trouble you will likly not ever let timing be what makes your trucks engine destruct.

These cummins are great engines stock. My 93 went 500K and I understand its current owner is at 675. never been wrenched. My 98 is on its way back to stock and will be sold. I will buy a 650 ford with a big ole cat because I do need much more power than a stock dodge 3500 can give. Good luck

Please dont bash my head in guys I have tried real hard to make this 3500 be the optimal truck for me but its not worth the expense. :-{}

 

[1dslram]

Pat did you check your timing? If not what did the shop set the timing at? When there is too much advance the engine changes the sound and knocks loudly. There are many more with advanced timing that have had no problems than have had problems. There are many things that can contribute to meltdown of an engine. EGT, cheap oil filters, Brand and type of oil, ect ect.

Bruce

 

[SRehberg]

Well that post just got my attention about the engine destroying itself, but wonder if the timing was way out of spec by someone who didn't check their work when finished. That would be a bitter pill to swallow if you paid to have the "professionals" do the work, then find out they possibly caused the failure.

 

[pathaymond]

Thats the pill I am taking the pill of trusting the pros!! Thats why I caution you sir It stinks being on this end. . As to oil I use the delo 15 40 always and fleet guard filters. Timming was to be set at 15. 5 Dealer set at 30 K after a overhaul. Pro shop was to set at 16 and then Blew head gasket so they retarded it to something?? then a shop who I wont mention set it at ?? I am told he sets it by ear?? so there you have it. I have spent tons on this engine and ended up with Junk. thanks to incompetent techs. so My point is simply do not allow anyone to fiddle with your engine unless you have some sort of guarantee that they will stand behind the timing they proclaim to have set you at. Then there is the issue of whats to much. Whole other can of worms But for me its simple I am staying inside the Cummins guidelines and if she wont pull then she wont pull. it did me no good to get power and destroy my engine. I do only hope not another person has to experience what I have and am going through all told this will be a 10K nut to crack.

 

[1dslram]

Your problem is exactly why all the work done on my truck engine I did myself. I have a friend that is a master mechanic with Cummins and he is going to help me put a cam in but other that that I will do it all myself and have no one else to blame. Can you get a rebuilt engine any cheaper? I know shipping would be high but if you have a local supply maybe you could make a deal.



Quite often the problem with the Cummins is off brand oil filters shredding and clocking the piston cooling nozzles. When you get the engine back together be sure to check your pyrometer, with the blown head gasket and your present problem there is an on going problem that hasn't been addressed or found as yet.

Good Luck

Bruce

 

[pathaymond]

Hind sight is 20/20 And I can see it quite clearly now. I have my block back all bored and ready to start the rebuild process I am fortunate enough to have found a Master mechanic that is willing for pay of course to spend a couple hours a few night a week helping me I have a nice shop to work in so This should not be to long in the future before thew truck is running again I will drive it as little as possible and am Hoping for a break in my work schedule to go talk to my Ford dealer about my ideas on the perfect 650 for me. Then the dodge is gone. Thanks for the replies and input.

Patrick

 

[qkoop]

I'll push my dodge before i drive another ford!

 

[pathaymond]

I did not realize this was a brand war!! Push away dude. I bet the new ford I am looking at will have no competition by dodge since dodge does not seem interested in making the bigger trucks. But if you would like you are welcome to come to my house and hitch em up rear to rear. I do not think you will like the result!!By the way I am not and have not slammed dodge or cummins! They are fine products But what good is a truck if it cant do the required work!! I use my truck its not some ego trip show toy!! if you can send me info on how to get a heavier dodge please do so. If you dont like ford dont buy one. I do beleive this was a productive thread until you decided You had nothing intelligent to offer. There Now I have done it !! Mr moderator please feel free to delete me and my posts!! :-{} Oo.

 

[SRehberg]

Pathaymond, If you are planning on buying a Ford 650, to do the work you want, then I would believe the Dodge you bought was to light of a truck in the first place for the work anticipated. Probably having a mechanic set the timing "by ear" was a BIG mistake that should have been addressed. The statement that the Dodge will be gone when you order the Ford, probably gets some peoples brand loyality upset, so you have to expect some heat. If you think the Ford is the better truck, then that's what you should get, but remember, you are not comparing equal trucks. Similar to a half ton vs. a one ton etc. Good luck with the Ford.

 

[SBrandon]

All truck brand put aside, cummins has been around, and always will be around. If a v8 diesel was the trick then you would see OTR trucks running them. Nothing beats the power of a staight six nomatter what it is in.

 

[Smokin Dodge]

Cummins

I may be mistaken but doesnt ford use the CUMMINS in there heavier trucks. Maybe not all but i have seen some that way.

 

[pathaymond]

I understand and thought the dodge would do the job But it wont stock this truck of mine is a slug and bombed it is a nightmare. The person who set my timming by ear is reputable here in the south! enough said

I am looking at ford not because I think they are better but because They have larger trucks I am wanting the Cat diesel 300 Hp engine and yes they offer the cummins as well lower hp. and of course the stroker which I would not have Just because I agree the v8 in a diesel is not the way to go. I do not need a 650 but it seems right now with the limited time and info I have that thats the size that allows Me to choose many options as to power source air ride etc etc. Ya 650 is way more truck than I need but I bet I wont be breaking it. I love my dodge and if I had a need for it I would keep it. This truck has been a real head ache for me pulled engine at 30K due to misaligned gaskets by Cummins. By the way we did find the block was warped so it has been sleved and surfaced I paid for the block to be checked south of Atlanta by cummins supposedly and well I lost 3 head gaskets after that. I bet this engine was never right from day one. which I am sure is rare but it happened to me . I am a Cummins stock holder and will remain so . I am however a bit down about my current situation with my truck. Why I ask does Dodge not make the larger trucks as the chevy and ford Or do they and I am not seeing it? thanks for the input

 

[illflem]

They do make larger trucks but not for the US market. Go down to Mexico and you'll see plenty of 4500 Rams.



#ad