Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) timing help????

[xpetecx]

I know its been beat to death on here but Ive got to ask.



Im coming up with some goofy reading doing my timing. I found tdc with the drop valve method. got the motor to tdc and took the reading of the gage. it was 11. 8 rotated the motor back and gage stoped going down at 5. 29. I then reset the gage to 5. 0 and took the motor forward to tdc. the reading was then 11. 71. Seems alittle strange to me that its only . 09 off were I started but i reset the gage . 29 back.



heres were I need help. It seems kinda like a dumb question but you have to take the difference of the reset reading with the motor backed off (5. 00) and the tdc (11. 71) reading right? that give me 6. 71 which is way to high.



so what I am doing wrong? am I not at tdc when I start? or is my timing just that high. the truck starts and runs fine, except for when you get about 2 grand. It spits and sputters and looses rpm all the while blowing white smoke. I thought i was going to find it was realy retarded.



By the way Im working on a 96 manual trans truck with a 215 pump. thanks for any help.

 

[xpetecx]

Alright I think Ifound part of my problem. I miss understood the shop manual some. I thought when they said set the gage to somewere betweend 7. 0 to 9. 0 they ment . 7 to . 9. I just put the gage all the way in the bottom of the holder and set the dial to 11. 8



So I re set everthing and tryed again. I set the gage to 8. 00 not pushing the gage all the way in the holder. I then rotated the motor back till it stoped going down at 2. 71. rest the dial to 0 and ran the motor back up to tdc. the gage then said 7. 58. which then doing the math thats 5. 58 of lift. which is still more then I thought I should have.



I had a local shop set my trucks timing about a year ago and they said it was set to 13. 2* so IF my timing has slipped wouldnt it be lower? I was under the impression thats the only way they slipped.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

So I re set everthing and tryed again. I set the gage to 8. 00 not pushing the gage all the way in the holder. I then rotated the motor back till it stoped going down at 2. 71. rest the dial to 0 and ran the motor back up to tdc. the gage then said 7. 58. which then doing the math thats 5. 58 of lift. which is still more then I thought I should have.

Basically you set the gauge in the holder as deep as it goes with the little extension rod, and tighten the securing nut. No need to read or zero the gauge at this point. Back the engine up until the needle stops moving, then zero the gauge. Move forward and stop dead on with your TDC mark, noting how much the gauge increments. Whatever number that comes to is your total lift in millimeters which translates into your timing based on the chart



PDR Diesel Inc. The turbo diesel performance specialists! - P7100 Timing



You should have 5. 0mm if you're at 13 degrees. You're right slipped timing = retarded timing. I would double check your TDC mark, gotta be dead on. . . if you got it right your timing pin should fall in.



Vaughn

 

[xpetecx]

Ive never had luck with my timing pin. I did not even try it today, but I will tommorrow. I pretty sure that my tdc mark is on but theres always that chance. The shop I had to my trucks timing last time put a mark on there and its landing on tdc at the same time as mine.



Is there another way to find tdc? could I pull the valve spring retainers and put a dial indicator on the valve stem and find it that way?



thanks for the help.

 

[JGK]

One thing I've found is, once you rotate the engine back until the gauge stops dropping, the rod in the gauge is not always properly seated on the plunger head. This may be unique to 215 pumps however. In any case, after rotating back to the bottom of the cam lobe (in the pump - zero plunger lift), I tap the top of the rod with my finger where it comes out the top of the gauge to ensure it is properly seated. Then I start rotating up to TDC.



Search timing threads that I've contributed to. In one or two of those I've explained how I find TDC using the dropped valve method and rotating the engine until the piston bumps up against the valve.



-Jay

 

[xpetecx]

I will check the rod to make sure, that is a good point.



I have read alot of the posts on the drop valve method and thats how I found tdc. I will go back and read some more though.



Im hoping I have better luck today, I realy need this truck going. Its supose to start snowing pretty quick here, and my other truck has bald tires. I just about kill my self in the rain with it cant imagine in the snow.



thanks for the help.

 

[xpetecx]

Just triple checked it Im consistenly getting 5. 5 or 5. 4 readings. according to peirs chart that puts me a 15. 5*. Which is actually were I want to be.



So my next dilema is why is my truck running like crap? It wont rev out blows white smoke and gets realy bad mileage. All these signs point to timing, dont they?

 

[xpetecx]

Oh and my timing marks were dead nuts. I went down to the garage and pushed the pin in and it went to my amazement. I Had to rotate the enging to make sure and try it again in a different spot.



So that still left me with why it ran like crap. A about a month ago I replaced all the fuel line on my truck including the rubber one from the tank to frame.



Well as many of you have probably guessed at this point in the story the lines are kinked shut. Boy do i feel stupid ordered the timing kit and ever thing for a kinked line. Or so I hope i havent driven it yet, realy hoping thats what it is. Oh well gave me an excuse to buy the kit.



oh and thanks for the help.

 

[JGK]

Well, let us know what happens after you get the fuel lines straightened out. The symptoms seem to point at retarded timing. But it sounds like you have that figured correctly. I'd suggest checking fuel pressure, but there's not a quick and easy way to do that unless you just happen to have a gauge and proper fittings.



-Jay

 

[Signal73]

Make some $$ with that timing kit now. alot of people dont want to be bothered doing it themselves, or dont see the need to spend $225 on a kit they will use once. I get $75, most shops get $200. Though I dont have a shop/employees, etc, so I just cant Justify the $200.



Jim

 

[xpetecx]

Well thanks for the help. I got the truck back together tonignt. Its kinda temperary so I can drive it in the crappy weahter, but it should do the job.





Im gonna try to make some of my money back or at least let some friends use it. there are not to many people around here with 12 valves. let alone 12 valves that want the timeing bumped up.



again thanks for all the help. I will let you know how my shake down run goes. hope it goes well cause its taking me 50 miles to work.