Timing moved again

[Power Wagon]

Ever since I put in the PW injectors, I felt from the sound that the engine was running at a "retarded" timing. The exhaust was loud and and kind of "blatty" at very low speeds, and it wasn't responsive, either.



So, today I cranked the pump ahead some more. I have yet to measure it, though. I wanted to move it around and keep moving it until I found the place where it seemed to run the best and THEN find out what it was.



Sure enough, the exhaust got MUCH quieter, the idle sped up slighly and smoothed out. Also, I cranked the fuel screw about a round or so. Now I get a little puff when I mash it hard. Guess I'm going end up taking the darn thing in to the shop and going into it. Gonna give it a fatter torque curve... when I get a converter to use it, that is



Gotta keep the smoke down... No point in drawing attention to yourself.

 

[bvanetten]

Have you tried a smaller turbo housing? How do you like your POD's? I still haven't found the time to install mine yet. What is your timing set to? After following all of the timing threads closely I'm beginning to think setting it exactly really doesn't matter. I mean, there are guys running anywhere from 1. 4 to 1. 7 with great results. I asked the local diesel guy here how much it would be to set my timing with a gauge and he said that he could set it but that he didn't have a gauge! He sets it buy ear! He said that more times than he can count, guys have come into his shop because a different shop "set" the timing with a tool and they weren't happy with the results. He would then set it buy ear with much better results. What do ya think.



Bruce

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by bvanetten

Have you tried a smaller turbo housing? How do you like your POD's? I still haven't found the time to install mine yet. What is your timing set to? After following all of the timing threads closely I'm beginning to think setting it exactly really doesn't matter. I mean, there are guys running anywhere from 1. 4 to 1. 7 with great results. I asked the local diesel guy here how much it would be to set my timing with a gauge and he said that he could set it but that he didn't have a gauge! He sets it buy ear! He said that more times than he can count, guys have come into his shop because a different shop "set" the timing with a tool and they weren't happy with the results. He would then set it buy ear with much better results. What do ya think.



Bruce

The board still has showing the signature OFF by default...



I have a 12CM wastegated exaust housing, PW injectors, and have played with the timing a bit. After this last move, i'm going to be retarding it a bit. Went too far. Lost power.



I have a pretty good ear for listening to the engine, and I have to say that the sound change is almost non-existent. Only the exhaust sound changed. The engine sounds almost exactly the same under the hood, after putting in the PW injectors, no matter what timing is set at. How it performs, however, is impacted - as well as fuel economy (maybe it's just my foot buried in it, I dunno).



Anyway, when I find the point where I think it runs the best, I will carefully check and set TDC and then check the pump's position to determine it's exact setting.



I'll note that here, when the time comes.

 

[bflood]

Timing by "ear"

Timing by "ear", I've been wanting to do this but am a little nervous (being a diesel newbe). Been studying the manual but have some questions.



Q1: Do you rotate the injector pump CCW (viewing the pump circle of feed lines, looking toward the front of truck) to advance the timing?



Q2: Is there some rule-of-thumb pump housing rotation that roughly equals 0. 1mm of pump lift?



Q3: If I push it too far can I do any damage or just lose power?



I'd like to make some cautious, seat-of-the-pants, adjustments and would appreciate any help.



Thanks, Bruce

 

[Power Wagon]

Ok, I set my timing back a little bit.



I think It's PERFECT where it is. sounds nice, good power, NO HARSH NOISE.



yes, I lost power... at high boost levels, with too much advance.



It was, however, more responsive. the engine was "snappier" without c hanging ANYTHING else at all, at low speed. Like, in parking lots or moving the truck around.



Now, it's the same power once you get some boost up, but not harsh sounding, and it revs freely to the governor cutoff.



A bit more exhaust noise. Much more bass "boom" sound.



I will be checking it for it's precise setting in a couple weeks. I want to konw what that is... and I hope to take the pump off and get it exactly back in time... which is why I'm going to measure it first.

edit:

Forgot to add this before: I had smoke while at WOT at any speed. Not a lot, but kinda hazy. No more. Moving the timing back cut off the black stuff to imperceptible. Well, except for that few moments when you suddenly nail it at speed - and you get 1-2. 5 seconds of black out the tailpipe.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

bflood,



If you're looking at the back of the pump were the fuel lines come out then your rotation for ADVANCE is clockwise. Take a look at were the pump bolts up to the gear housing. You will see a line (painted over) on the housing and a matching tick mark on the pump. This is theoretically supposed to be 1. 25mm lift, darned if I know the degrees advance that translates too.

Anyway, by rotating the pump top upward, toward the engine, will advance timing.

Mine is currently set at 15mm lift or about 15* advance. To me, it looks to be about 1/8" up from the reference mark on the gear housing. There will be some differences between trucks due to the inaccuracies of the timing pin/factory setting, but if you aim for about the same amount you should be pretty close.

If you go too far you'll notice less power at the lower end, and a bit more "knocking" sound from the engine. I describe it as a "harder" sounding engine.

As a suggestion take a good pen and make 3 marks about 1/16" apart upward from the original reference mark on the gear housing and start with the first one up, then go from there.

The 3 bolts that hold the pump in place are tight and the lower one closest to the engine is a booger to get to.

Turning the pump will be stiff since there are injector lines connected and secured in place but you should be able to move it. If not you may have to loosen them SLIGHTLY.

Now, with all that said, I bet Power Wagon can give you some advice in about 3 lines since he IS and expert with this stuff.



Let us know how you make out.



Bob

 

[bflood]

Thanks BushWakr,

I was looking it over this afternoon. According to your description, my engine is RETARDED about 1/8th" CCW from the mark. This fits with the high EGT's I've been experiencing. I hope to work on it this weekend. I'll let you all know how things work out.

Bruce

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hey, glad to help. This place is how I learned what little I know.

Remeber, there are minor differences between settings/reference marks on individual trucks. Retarded timing helps reduce emissions output too which is why DC went with about 1. 25mm lift timing. The earlier ones, 89's I think came out with timing set at 1. 35mm.

Anway, just mark EVERYTHING you plan to adjust, EVERYTHING !!

that way stock setting is a piece of cake if you need to 'retreat' in a hurry.

Looking forward to your progress.



Bob.

 

[bflood]

Advanced Timing

Originally posted by bflood

Thanks BushWakr,

I was looking it over this afternoon. According to your description, my engine is RETARDED about 1/8th" CCW from the mark. This fits with the high EGT's I've been experiencing. I hope to work on it this weekend. I'll let you all know how things work out.

Bruce

Advanced timing 1/16th" past timing mark on pump.

Engine sounds crisp.

Power comes on quicker.

Less Smoke on hard early acceleration.

EGT's at WOT no-load look to be roughly 150*F lower.

Boost at WOT no-load is lower (20# instead of 25#).



My above report is approximate and only based on a 12 mile run around town with no load. Looks like I can now open up the fuel screw some more and than start to play with the other adjustments (star wheel etc. ) I'll probably do some heavy hauling before any more adjustments though. Eventually I'll check timing the right way, through proper measurements to validate my benchmarks.



I must say it was a challange to get the pump timing adjusted . 2 of the 3 flange nuts were miserable! Took a lot of patience and determination and 3 hours. It was well worth it!!Oo. Oo.



Thanks everyone for your help. This site, and it's members, is GREAT!

 

[rjones]

WILL THIS WORK WITH 96 5. 9'S ALSO ?