Timing Pin Question

[hotram03]

I know this may sound like old news or is a dumb question, but I'd rather sound dumb, ask someone and learn. I am on a learning curve as this 92 is my 1st gen ever owned. Question is on this timing pin or I assume its A. K. A. KDP, what do you do for a fix and if you do some type of fix, does this mess up using it to adjust your valves, if you can't use it? And are there any other issues I need to deal with on this motor, bolts, covers, kdp's, etc, anything else gonna fall out? I'm sorry for so many questions, I just dont know these 1st gens, but I want to learn, I like'm better than my 3rd. Thanks everyone

 

[TKingsbury]

The timing pin and the KDP are two different animals. The timing pin is the one for finding TDC, the KDP (killer dowel pin) is a dowel pin used to locate the accessory drive housing.

Travis. .

 

[tugboatphil]

hotram03,



First thing. Any question you ask here, no matter how dumb you might think it is, pales in comparison to most of the ones I ask. In fact, if you ever have a really stupid question, PM me and I'll ask it. They've come to expect these from me. :-laf :-laf



As to the pin. The timing pin (I think) is on the back left of the gear cover. It engages a hole in one of the gears to hold things in place.



The KDP (killer dowel pin) is on the front of the gear plate and is used to align it during installation to the front of the block. For this, you have to remove the oil fill tube, belt, fan, radiator, crankshaft balancer and gear cover. Did I forget anything?



There have been several questions on this lately. Check back through the next couple of pages. But you can either bolt a tab over it after you drive it back in, or mash the edge of the hole inwards to keep it from backing all the way out.



It's a good time to pressure wash the radiator and change the water pump and thermostat.

 

[btoscano]

I think the Cummins will vibrate everything loose eventually.



The KDP is the Killer dowel pin. It can only be seen by removing the timing case cover. On the 1st gens, the case cover bolts are more likely to loosen than the KDP falling out. I tabbed my KDP and tightened the bolts in November.



The timing pin can be seen below the injection pump on the back side of the timing cover. When the engine is at TDC the pin pushes in pretty far. Don't forget to pull it back out before turning over the engine elsewise you'll be sorry.



I would suggest reading the FAQ on this forum to learn about some of the other things or to get you thinking and asking more questions.



-brian

 

[hotram03]

thanks guys for the input, now let me ask this, what do I use to "Tab" this KDP, I understand the idea of staking it into the block/rear of gear cover or whatever it goes into, will know how to explain it or myself better after I tear into it, and I suppose staking it with like a nail set would do good, but I think I would feel better with something blocking it or over it, I dont know if this is possible. can anyone show me a picture of the dowels exact location, and I guess its just one dowel to worry about, not in pairs on the gear case?

 

[btoscano]

The tab refers to metal that is shaped to cover the pin & secured to the timing gear case by a bolt about 1/4" away. There is a Cummins dealer part, but don't waste your time or money on it beacuse its designed for 2nd gen trucks with similar, but different timing gear cases. I liked the one from Harold but you can make your own. Once you remove the timing cover you will understand. I have seen it done once and then done it once myself and its isn't that bad. I don't live too far away and can help you out if you are interested.



Brian

 

[BHiggins]

"A" is the KDP's original location. "B" is the damage that occurs when the KDP becomes killer. I apologize for the small size of the pic, but the website won't let me upload it at the full size. If you want to see it larger, PM me and I'll send you the detailed pic.

 

[Philip]

Change the pic to JPeg and it will be larger on the site. It looks like Mpeg format to me. I posted some pic's a while back and didn't pay attention to the format.

 

[BHiggins]

How do you change the format?

 

[tugboatphil]

How do you change the format?

Brian,



The program I use is called LView. I got it long ago as a free download. Doesn't do a lot of bells and whistles, but it works pictures just fine. You can do the same with PhotoShop, Paint Shop Pro or any of those others.



Open your picture file. At this point you can also "resize" or "resample" the image. This changes the size of the height and width. If there is stuff on the picture you don't want, you can usually highlight it and then "crop". This removes all the stuff outside of what you highlighted.



When it comes time to save the file. Choose "Save As" and then underneath you can choose from .jpg, . bmp, .gif. You can save the same picture with all 3 file extensions. The difference is the way they are compressed. A .jpg file of the same size as the other 2 will not take up as much disk space.



If you're going to do a lot to any one picture, when you make changes, save it with a different name than what it already is. This way, if you screw it up (I'm not saying that I ever have ) you still have the original that you can reopen and start again. For example, you are going to rework truck.jpg. When you crop and resize, you save as truck 1.jpg.



Another tip. If you have a bunch of pictures you have to rename, and you want them to stay in a certain order for a slideshow, number them with a 3 digit number. truck 001.jpg, truck 002.jpg, truck 003.jpg. I do this by highlighting and "copying" truck 00. Then I just put the number at the end.



I have to take pictures when I'm on road trips and email back for my work. So I do this a lot. Hope this helps.

 

[BHiggins]

Phil,

I re-sized the image to get it to post, I had to shrink it considerably because it kept saying "file too large". I believe it's a "bitmap" image, not a jpeg. I tried to change the format to jpeg but couldn't figure out how. One of the other guys asked me to e-mail him the full sized picture, but it would have been nice to post a good one from the start. I'll work on changing the format, and if I figure it out I'll repost the pic.

 

[BHiggins]

OK, I was able to change it to a jpeg format so here is a larger version of the KDP pic (Thanks Phil). Again, "A" is the original location of the KDP. "B" is the damage done when it goes killer. Keep in mind that the damage can, and does get alot worse than this. In this case the pin simply blew through the timing gear housing. Replace the housing and you're done. The KDP can also damage the timing gears, cam, crank, etc.

 

[hotram03]

thanks alot guys, I'm gonna go to cummins and order whatever parts besides a cover seal I'll need, so I can do this, truck has 155,000 on the odo and this was never done. Suprising the cover has no leaks, like most 12v's I've seen.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

A suggestion, while you are busy with tabbing the KDP, setting your valves, and installing 60# springs for your exhaust brake you might want to mark TDC on the harmonic balancer with the timing peg. That way you won't have to mess with the timing peg again. It is a real PIA, imho.

 

[hotram03]

Yeah I can see its gonna be fun, when I set them on my '03 you use the toner ring either TDC mark or gap in ring depending on what you have, pretty easy, laying on your back turning engine with barring tool and watching the ring, this I see is gonna take two people, and thanks for the idea to mark the balancer I will sure do that