tires with Nitrogen

[machinemover]

I went with Firestones on my '03 before I traded it in, got a good deal at GVW in South Bend, Indiana, on my way to tire rack just across the interstate. GVW was cheaper and they talked me into filling the tires with Nitrogen instead of air. $5 a shot. I watched a video about it and it seems to prove true. 20% longer wear, cooler running tire. I pull 20,000 lbs all over the country and I have run all day, pulled into to refuel, felt the tires and they are down right cold. felt the trailer tires to compare and they are hot. makes sence, I'd do it again, nitrogen is worth the $5 per tire in my opinion.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Interesting - and real important info for warmer climate owners - and especially RVers or other heavy-haulers who frequently travel in those climates.



Any other direct experiences out there?



I wonder if Les Schwab offers that?

 

[Cattletrkr]

My trailer tires say 125psi COLD. Do the tires rely on the added pressure from the heat?? Not a real big deal, but for someone running the max pres/load it could be.

 

[JRG]

This sounds cooool :-laf . Sorry had to do it. Seriously though wonder how much this helps?



JRG

 

[Nate]

:-laf



Did you also get some blinker fluid and new muffler bearings?

 

[RustyJC]

I tried helium in my trailer tires (see signature). I had to change it out, though. Unless I ran with the fresh water tank full, the trailer would float off the ground! :-laf



Rusty

 

[Boondocker]

What happens if you need to fill up the tire or raise the pressure? I don't know if nitrogen is available all over the country, where you go. What happens if you mix in regular atmospheric air?

 

[cosborne]

This comes up A LOT in the offroad world since guys use CO2 as well to fill their tires with and is also debated A LOT as to benefits if any...



There is a lot of reading here but my favorite is to remember that air is 78% nitrogen



http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227298&highlight=nitrogen+tire

 

[CMNS PWR]

I run nitrogen in my tires without any complaints. The pressures hold rock steady. Its readily available at most stores in my area.

 

[ENafziger]

I run nitrogen in my 35 toyos and am pleased. They do seem to run cooler. Nitrogen's coefficient of expansion is not nearly as great as that of air, and henceforth, tire pressure does not change markedly with varying ambient temperatures. Thus, adjusting tire pressure between climates, or summer/winter is not really necessary. Airplanes also run nitrogen in their tires for the same reason... high altitudes with cold temps, and then very warm temps as the landing gear comes down and they come to a smoking stop!



Another benefit is the absence of moisture in the air, eliminating the corrosion factor.

 

[Nate]

We put regualr air in the tires on our jets (Air Force)

 

[JOblenes]

Now I am honestly not trying to be a smartty pants here or make anyone look stupid but here is an image from a thermodynamics table. As someone else pointed out above air is predominantly nitrogen and as a result their thermodynamic properties are very similar. In the range of temperatures and pressure we are talking about here both Nitrogen and Air follow the "ideal" gas law quite closely with less than 1% deviation (Pv=RT), P is pressure, v is specific volume (inverse of density), T is temperature, R is the gas constant. Thus the conclusion that the "expansion coefficient" for nitrogen is much different from air is not correct, i. e. they have very similar values for R (actually only 3. 4 % different). Also note that the specific heats are very similar, which means that the temperature increase of the air (or nitrogen)due to absorbing thermal energy from the tire rubber will be just about the same (within about 3. 5%) and will thus result in about only a 3. 5 % difference in temperatue everything else being the same. Now I am not saying that Nitrogen doesn't have some other benefit (e. g. moisture free, no oxidation of the rubber or something else going on to reduce wear) but I don't think it is likely related to the thermodynamics of the nitrogen if there is any real impact at all. I would have to read more about the tire wear studies to convince myself.

 

[JOblenes]

This comes up A LOT in the offroad world since guys use CO2 as well to fill their tires with and is also debated A LOT as to benefits if any...



There is a lot of reading here but my favorite is to remember that air is 78% nitrogen



http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227298&highlight=nitrogen+tire

Further to my post above the constant R for CO2 IS quite a bit lower than air (R for CO2 = 35. 1) which means it would want to expand less than air for a given temperature change. The problem is that it also has a low specific heat (0. 2016) which means for a given amount of heat it changes temperature quite a bit and would likely offset the change in R. But looking at my chart propane would be a great candidate for filling tires, low R, big Cp and Cv... Hmmm. Of course I am kidding, don't try that at home.

 

[DieselFiend]

we use nitrogen in our jets (Air Force) Nate, air force uses all nitrogen now.

 

[JRG]

we use nitrogen in our jets (Air Force) Nate, air force uses all nitrogen now.

If the military is doing it, there might be something to it.



JRG

 

[Nate]

I could be wrong... I work Ammo, so I don't deal with the jets so much.



I remember working on the flightline last year and I usually saw the crew chiefs filling tires with a low pack or hi pac (with the pressure turned down) I don't remember ever seeing a nitrogen cart on the line.



Either way, it's not worth $5 a tire!



Alot of guys have Co2 tanks in their off road rigs. Not because it's better for tires, etc... Just that it's cheap, a tank lasts a while, and it's ok for the tires.

 

[JOblenes]

Here ya go, http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tt/tt020532.htm It is not because the nitrogen makes it cooler because of its thermodynamic properties, but that air "aged" tires become degraded internally by moisture and oxygen and generate more heat internally in the rubber. Also air filled tires leak more by permeation and become under-inflated faster and are thus run more frequently at incorrect pressure resulting in more wear.

 

[foolkiller]

If the military is doing it, there might be something to it.



JRG

yeah... . means it costs more.

 

[rbattelle]

Personally, I don't believe in Nitrogen inflation for anything other than racing or aircraft use. An interesting article.



Instead, I've decided to run a specialty mixture of gasses in my tires, at specific pressures to optimize their performance. Here's my "special" formulation:



Front:

78. 1% Nitrogen at 43 psig

20. 95% Oxygen at 11. 5 psig

0. 038% CO2 at 0. 021 psig

0. 0018% Neon at 0. 001 psig

0. 0005% Helium at 0. 000275 psig

0. 0001% Krypton at 0. 000055 psig

0. 00005% Hydrogen at 0. 0000275 psig



Rear:

78. 1% Nitrogen at 39. 1 psig

20. 95% Oxygen at 10. 5 psig

0. 038% CO2 at 0. 019 psig

0. 0018% Neon at 0. 0009 psig

0. 0005% Helium at 0. 00025 psig

0. 0001% Krypton at 0. 00005 psig

0. 00005% Hydrogen at 0. 000025 psig



Those are approximate numbers, of course. Takes be about 2 hours to get the mixture just the way I like it, but I've found it optimizes tire life and my tires typically lose <1 psig over 6000 miles.



[You gotta have a lot of time on your hands to come up with stuff like this]



-Ryan

 

[cosborne]

:--) :-laf :-laf :-laf



I love it!!! Tha same mixture I run Oo. Oo. Oo.



You a funny guy!!!