to 3rd gen or not to 3rd.

[PDM]

I also have both a 97[chassis-cab manual], and an '03 2500[auto].



I love both trucks, and my 97 has more than enough power to tow anything I've

ever hooked to it[20000gvw gooseneck]. I've been satisfied with the truck,

and flat out love the Cummins.



That said, the "wrapper" has improved, and my '03 has better brakes, steering,

and the auto trans now seems adequate to the Cummins torque output.

I like the quiet engine and improved ride. It really is a very nice truck.

It is much faster empty than my 97.

 

[time1]

Chris



Looking back over four Cummins TDs I have to say that the 2004 I have is the best of all on them. All of the trucks were absolutly stock with no modifications at all.



I had a '97 Standard Cab LB 2500 4X4 Auto, 3. 55 gearing that was OK except for the Auto Trans. The transmission started to shudder going inot lock up under load around 60K miles when I traded it off.



The '99 2500, Quad Cab, LB, 4X4, 5 speed manual, 3. 55 gears was a great truck untill it got hit and rolled once and the insurance company totaled it with only 90K miles on it. This truck never had a glitch.



The replacement was a 2002 3500, Quad Cab, LB,DWD, 4X4, Auto, 3. 55 gears. It was OK. Just did not have much get up and go and I have to admit that I was super easy on the Auto Transmission. It had the worst average fuel milage of all the trucks. It is my opinion that the Auto Trans should never have been sold with 3. 55 gearing. This truck found a new home with less than 36K on the odometer.



The last is the '04 3500 Quad, LB, DWD, 4X4, Auto, 4,10 gearing. Steers better, rides better, quieter, lots more power, better fit and finish, you name it. All of the trucks have pulled similar 30 foot 5th wheels and a 28 foot travel trailers. The 04 pulls much better and handles better than any of the others.

 

[DPelletier]

Hopefully this won't turn into another bash session like the last thread.

I've had both and I remain happy with my new truck. To be completely honest, I miss the valve cover on my '01 and 50% of the time I miss the sound (the other 50% of the time, I prefer the quiet).

The steering alone is enough reason to switch for me, and my kids are way happier with the new QC.



Dave

 

[klenger]

I've had both (01. 5 HO and 04. 5). Both have been trouble free. Only thing I miss about the 01. 5 is the lower payment. The 2nd gen exterior styling was really great too. My 04. 5 has 80HP and 95 ft-lbs more power/torque, has higher GVWR and GCWR, and is now getting better milage (since the reflash) than my 01. 5.



BTW, I think all 3rd gens are "fly by wire" from the go pedel, but I could be wrong.

 

[az]

Had a 99 qc lwb 2500 auto for over three years and loved it. Wanted a new 3G and when the time was right found an 04. 5 that was great in so many ways but two weeks later it was stolen.



Have been thinking while the insurance company works things our and will probably not go back to a 3G, not that I did not like it but just miss my 2G and the better mileage. Will be looking for a 02 when the check comes in. Some of this admittedly is $ but the rest is my 99 was basically trouble free, OK so I replaced a couple of lift pumps but that was it.

 

[DPelletier]

Oh yeah, I forgot "resistance is futile"!



Dave

 

[gsbrockman]

I've owned a 1998 12V, a 2000 24V, and now my 2003 3rd GEN... ... they only keep getting better & better.

Greg

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

I loved the 95 4x4 2500 I had ,and I too miss the diesel noise of the 2G, sometimes!

But the improvements in the PS and the Brakes with the 3G is O so sweet! I do miss the MPG!

 

[tschwab]

I had a '98 12V and now a new '05. The 12V was and still is a great truck, but the '05 is so much more refined, from the brakes to the steering and I like the look of the 3G's, to me, the 2G's are good looking trucks, but park one next to a 3G and the 2G looks dated IMHO.



If you plan to leave your 3G stock, I don't think you could go wrong. If you want to BOMB it, I would probably stick with 2G.



As far as the sound, it is quieter... . BUT - There is definetly that Cummins growl, which I much more prefer over the noise & violence of my 12V... . maybe I'm just getting older. What I miss the most, is being able to blow a BIG cloud of black diesel smoke on those piece of ***** tailgaters, that ALWAYS made them backoff in a BIG hurry.



Would I do it all over again, You bet, it is an awesome truck! Good luck

 

[EBottema]

How can 2gn gens be better when they have

-less power

-weaker frame

-smaller cabs

-smaller, problem prone brakes

-problem prone steering and front ends

-weaker automatic transmissions

-weaker transfer cases

-lower capacity for both hauling and towing





These all seem like pretty important things to me, perhaps not to you. Nothing against the 2nd gen but the 3rd gen is better in almost every way, this is not just opinion, it's fact.

Less power=more longevity

Weaker frame? Big deal, a hydroform frame cannot be repaired of welded on according to Dodge

Cab- Up to personal preferance...

3rd gens do have better brakes, i will give that one to you, however, they do come with a nice large ABS ( A Bullshiet System) that is $$$...

3rd gens also superior in 4x4 front end

How are the auto trannys and TC's weaker? Not a lot of problems with the old TC



You forgot to mention that 3rd gens are a electrical nightmare and many offer poor fuel economy. The new 05 is even worse with intank pump and no TPS which most likely means electronic fly by throttle pedel... .



when it comes down to it, it will cost much more to keep a 3rd gen going in the long run than a 2nd gen... .



Good luck

Erik

 

[TCDiesel]

when it comes down to it, it will cost much more to keep a 3rd gen going in the long run than a 2nd gen... .



Good luck

Erik

NO WAY,The technology thats install in the ETH/ETC Isb is PROVEN,electronic injectors are known to last a easy 1/2 mill ,the the mains and rods with proper maintance should do the same. The 2gens are a great engine, but the 3gen will out live it. I have had 97 & 01 V-10s, I did not want the lift and VP44 issues. The body were good but the 3gen is superior.





Side Note ,C/R injectors seem to be the weak link in the 3gen engine. Dirty fuel is the problem. If you install a auxiliary fuel tank with a 3 micron filter and be careful when you fill on the job-site {wind blown sand/dirt/debris}, I think they will go a mill Plus. YES 3 MICRON FILTERS ARE NOW AVAILABLE. spin-on.

 

[DPelletier]

Less power=more longevity

Weaker frame? Big deal, a hydroform frame cannot be repaired of welded on according to Dodge

Cab- Up to personal preferance...

3rd gens do have better brakes, i will give that one to you, however, they do come with a nice large ABS ( A Bullshiet System) that is $$$...

3rd gens also superior in 4x4 front end

How are the auto trannys and TC's weaker? Not a lot of problems with the old TC



You forgot to mention that 3rd gens are a electrical nightmare and many offer poor fuel economy. The new 05 is even worse with intank pump and no TPS which most likely means electronic fly by throttle pedel... .



when it comes down to it, it will cost much more to keep a 3rd gen going in the long run than a 2nd gen... .



Good luck

Erik

Sorry Erik, I'm confused; are you saying the 47RE is as good as a 48RE?



Dave

 

[rashwor]

I have a '92, sold the '99 with 178000+ on it, and bought a '05. I have almost 1200 miles on it. I traded from a regular cab to a QuadCab '05 because our family is growing and we hope it contiues to grow. The room of the '05 is adequate (read don't need a megacab, if they even happen) and a requirement.



It has about the same power (maybe a little more) as the '99 which I had a EZ on to get it there. I love the '05 so far.



Thoughts on the '05:



1) The in-tank pump may be a problem. It also may be the perfect solution to the 2nd gen lift pump issues. Time will tell. Not loosing any sleep over it.



2) Common rail injectors may be a problem, but aftermarket filtration should solve it. Filling up at trustworthy stations and regular filter changes / water trap draining on the truck are the best solutions. It may soon be possible to get a 2 or 3 micron drop-in filter to replace the stock filter. Time will tell. Not loosing any sleep over it.



3) Can't wait to tow with it. The 6 speed should be far superior for towing over the 5 speeds. Never had a problem with the NV4500, but there was a lot of space between the gears compared to the 6 speed. The 6 speed is built for towing, the 5 speed is built for racing / acceleration.



4) The family and I love the softer ride. The wife loves the quite , but I think I will be solving her problem shortly with the opening up of the muffler and kitty. The one thing that works in my favor on this is that our 5 month old daughter goes right to sleep with the roar of the straight piped second gen. I love our little girl! "Can you say 'Cummins'?"



I am not trying to talk anyone into trading to a 3rd gen. I got a really good offer on the '99 and a good price on the '05. Needed the quadcab for the family. It came together and it was time to trade. If none of the above had happened, I would still be happily driving my '99. It is still a great truck and yes, I had put a VP44 on it on my dime and two lift pumps. Everything has maintenance associated with it. What will the maintenance of the 3rd gens be? Time will tell.



The fact is that time will tell about the 3rd gens and the '05s. I am not loosing any sleep over it. This is my third CTD and there is not a bad one in the bunch!



Good luck with whatever you decide. There is no wrong choice, but everyone will have an opinion to the contrary.

 

[geusterman]

What I miss on my 02 is the "more square" cab which is easier to get in and out of. I miss my 6 speed at times (auto now) and the ST/2gen simplicity. That's about it. On my 04. 5 I like the the "quieterness" so my wife will go distance with me, 4 doors to shoot gophers out of, brakes, power, ride and steering. Glad we don't have the lift problems anymore either. Whole truck is more respectful of riders and driver. I hate the thin metal of the bed and body. All brands that way I guess.



If it had just been me (not wife and grandkids) I would still have my 02. Maybe.

George

 

[EBottema]

NO WAY,The technology thats install in the ETH/ETC Isb is PROVEN,electronic injectors are known to last a easy 1/2 mill ,the the mains and rods with proper maintance should do the same. The 2gens are a great engine, but the 3gen will out live it. I have had 97 & 01 V-10s, I did not want the lift and VP44 issues. The body were good but the 3gen is superior.

Sure, The MECHANICAL parts of the cummins will last a lifetime but everything else will not. All the little plastic pieces that Dodge uses will break, all the little electronic sensors will fail and need to be replaced. The 3rd gen with its creature comforts and massive amounts of electronic sensors will cost much more in the long run to maintain.



The 48RE was used in late second gen's, right? From the problems I hear, they both are weak transmission's. See the problem started when some shmuck had the idea to make the transmission electronically controlled. Prior to 1996, the 727 was a much better trans with less problems. Same with GM in 1996 when they started going to electronically controlled trannies.



Erik

 

[Bertram65]

Sure, The MECHANICAL parts of the cummins will last a lifetime but everything else will not. All the little plastic pieces that Dodge uses will break, all the little electronic sensors will fail and need to be replaced. The 3rd gen with its creature comforts and massive amounts of electronic sensors will cost much more in the long run to maintain.



The 48RE was used in late second gen's, right? From the problems I hear, they both are weak transmission's. See the problem started when some shmuck had the idea to make the transmission electronically controlled. Prior to 1996, the 727 was a much better trans with less problems. Same with GM in 1996 when they started going to electronically controlled trannies.



Erik

The 48RE has only been put in 3rd gens made after 01/03, at least if you are going to come in the 3rd gen forums talking smack know your stuff.

 

[geusterman]

The survivalist in me likes my old 83 6. 2 Blazer and diesel Rabbit. But it comes down to everyday reality... the new trucks are plain friendly and I don't keep them forever. As electronics become the norm (I mean... we've been to the moon on electronics!) I think they will be less "greek" and we will be more knowledgeable in working with them. We use lots of electronics in war now. If I were truly in need of a reliable, simple rig I would buy an early 98 12V 4 door and wrestle with the front end, transmission and brakes. They can all be fixed. George

 

[TCDiesel]

Sure, The MECHANICAL parts of the cummins will last a lifetime but everything else will not. All the little plastic pieces that Dodge uses will break, all the little electronic sensors will fail and need to be replaced. The 3rd gen with its creature comforts and massive amounts of electronic sensors will cost much more in the long run to maintain.



The 48RE was used in late second gen's, right? From the problems I hear, they both are weak transmission's. See the problem started when some shmuck had the idea to make the transmission electronically controlled. Prior to 1996, the 727 was a much better trans with less problems. Same with GM in 1996 when they started going to electronically controlled trannies.





The 48 & 47 Have same TC/VB ,The 48 has added some new hardware in the drive section ,But in reality it has the same weak link the TC. EBottema get"s this one.

 

[EBottema]

The 48RE has only been put in 3rd gens made after 01/03, at least if you are going to come in the 3rd gen forums talking smack know your stuff.

First I would like to say thanks to the others who can atleast make educated comments instead of acting like children. I am not talking "smack" about anyone or their trucks, I don't care about the differences versus the 47re and the 48re. They are both worthless piles or crap no matter what truck is wrapped around the transmission. Isn't that the reason everyone gets their auto trannys built around here by different vendors? The 48RE might be a slight improvement but here is the problem, the shafts and bearings are too small and they don't get oiled good enough. Stock ELECTRONIC trannys are in themselves a joke. They don't ever shift hard enough and are never as reliable as the old 727 or if we talk GM product, the turbo 350 is always gonna be better than the 4L60E. That is fact, why since the mid 90's does it seem that we are having more transmission failures in new cars. It is because the transmission is electronically controlled. My father has purchased a 1996 Yukon brand new and it had 4 trannys in 30k miles. Why might you say? Well the computer caused the trans to slip since it couldnt figure out what function to complete. Well that one was lemon law'd.



So lets leave the transmission's out of the picture since if you want a bulletproof truck, 3rd or 2nd gen, you get the new venture manual trans.



Erik

 

[TCDiesel]

EBottema, In most cases it the way that some poeple drive, You put that 727 behind the todays power plants, with the habaits people drive today it will have its share of problems.





Alright its -15 out 1st,2nd & 3rd Gen"s, None plug in which one is going to start ,the 3rd,WHY because of the new electronics.