to 3rd gen or not to 3rd.

[Bertram65]

First I would like to say thanks to the others who can atleast make educated comments instead of acting like children. I am not talking "smack" about anyone or their trucks, I don't care about the differences versus the 47re and the 48re. They are both worthless piles or crap no matter what truck is wrapped around the transmission. Isn't that the reason everyone gets their auto trannys built around here by different vendors? The 48RE might be a slight improvement but here is the problem, the shafts and bearings are too small and they don't get oiled good enough. Stock ELECTRONIC trannys are in themselves a joke. They don't ever shift hard enough and are never as reliable as the old 727 or if we talk GM product, the turbo 350 is always gonna be better than the 4L60E. That is fact, why since the mid 90's does it seem that we are having more transmission failures in new cars. It is because the transmission is electronically controlled. My father has purchased a 1996 Yukon brand new and it had 4 trannys in 30k miles. Why might you say? Well the computer caused the trans to slip since it couldnt figure out what function to complete. Well that one was lemon law'd.



So lets leave the transmission's out of the picture since if you want a bulletproof truck, 3rd or 2nd gen, you get the new venture manual trans.



Erik

Erik,

This is not the first time you have come into the 3rd gen forums and bashed the 3rd gen trucks, if you knew what you were talking about then your opinions might be worth something, but seeing as you do not own a 3rd gen and based on numerous comments made by you about them showing your lack of knowledge it would seem you just come in here to get a rise out of people. As for the comment about "acting like children" just what type of response did you expect and how was it contructive when you made this post on the first page?



"Stick with your 2nd gen... . A better truck, will last a lifetime.

Just say no to 3rd Gens "

 

[DPelletier]

First I would like to say thanks to the others who can atleast make educated comments instead of acting like children. I am not talking "smack" about anyone or their trucks, I don't care about the differences versus the 47re and the 48re. They are both worthless piles or crap no matter what truck is wrapped around the transmission. Isn't that the reason everyone gets their auto trannys built around here by different vendors? The 48RE might be a slight improvement but here is the problem, the shafts and bearings are too small and they don't get oiled good enough. Stock ELECTRONIC trannys are in themselves a joke. They don't ever shift hard enough and are never as reliable as the old 727 or if we talk GM product, the turbo 350 is always gonna be better than the 4L60E. That is fact, why since the mid 90's does it seem that we are having more transmission failures in new cars. It is because the transmission is electronically controlled. My father has purchased a 1996 Yukon brand new and it had 4 trannys in 30k miles. Why might you say? Well the computer caused the trans to slip since it couldnt figure out what function to complete. Well that one was lemon law'd.



So lets leave the transmission's out of the picture since if you want a bulletproof truck, 3rd or 2nd gen, you get the new venture manual trans.



Erik

Whilst I tend to agree that manual transmissions are inherently stronger and more reliable than automatics, I would disagree that the electronic controls are to blame. The newer trannies (in any manufacturer) are more complicated and have more potential issues due to a number of reasons, such as lock up torque converters and OD units that were not part of the equation in the 727 torqueflight and TH350 and TH400 days.



TWest: What Erik said was " How are the auto transmission's and TC's weaker? Not a lot of problems with the old TC" . This is blatantly wrong, the 47RE TC had lots of problems and the 48RE(while not perfect) has had a much better success rate than the 47RE. And as Bertram65 pointed out, the 48RE was NOT available in a 2nd gen.



I'm thinking you just have a real hate on for anything electronic. Fact is, my 2001. 5 had all the creature comforts and electronic "gizmos" that my 2003 does.

Ultimately, I must agree, anyone seriously considering moving up to a 3rd gen is better served by listening to people who have had or still have both.



Dave

 

[lmills]

Well, like it or not without the electronics to controls emissions you probably wouldn't even have a cummins in your truck after the change over in 1998. Also as for the intank fuel pump? Most people said the duramax aluminum heads would not last either. Haven't heard of too many failures there either. Trust me, I am not saying I like them, just saying that only time will really tell.

 

[tschwab]

Erik,

This is not the first time you have come into the 3rd gen forums and bashed the 3rd gen trucks, if you knew what you were talking about then your opinions might be worth something, but seeing as you do not own a 3rd gen and based on numerous comments made by you about them showing your lack of knowledge it would seem you just come in here to get a rise out of people. As for the comment about "acting like children" just what type of response did you expect and how was it contructive when you made this post on the first page?



"Stick with your 2nd gen... . A better truck, will last a lifetime.

Just say no to 3rd Gens "

DITTO, He is just trolling to get a rise out of us. Ignore him, he is not worth the effort to even reply to. It would be like me going to the 12V forum and stating these issues that were prone to the 12V's:



Plastic trans line connectors.

Killer Dowel Pin

Poor brakes

Bad steering

Fraying throttle cables

Smaller radiator vs 3G

Smaller inter-cooler vs 3G

Much less stock power & torque vs 3G

TPS sensors that go out

Bad cup holders

No real 4 doors



Not trying to bash 12V's or 2G's - I really liked my 12V, just trying to illistrate that each Gen will have there share of issues. The 3G Ram's are much more refined, more powerful and much more comfortable. If I have problems, thats why I have a 7 year - 100k mile powertrain warranty. By the time I reach that point, I'll probably be buying a 4G or 5G RAM

 

[KBertetto]

DITTO, He is just trolling to get a rise out of us. Ignore him, he is not worth the effort to even reply to. It would be like me going to the 12V forum and stating these issues that were prone to the 12V's:



Plastic trans line connectors.

Killer Dowel Pin

Poor brakes

Bad steering

Fraying throttle cables

Smaller radiator vs 3G

Smaller inter-cooler vs 3G

Much less stock power & torque vs 3G

TPS sensors that go out

Bad cup holders

No real 4 doors



Not trying to bash 12V's or 2G's - I really liked my 12V, just trying to illistrate that each Gen will have there share of issues. The 3G Ram's are much more refined, more powerful and much more comfortable. If I have problems, thats why I have a 7 year - 100k mile powertrain warranty. By the time I reach that point, I'll probably be buying a 4G or 5G RAM

I agree with the above. He needs to 86ed out of this forum, does nothing but talk out his arse... one thread already deleted for this very reason. Ridiculous.

 

[EBottema]

Excuse me? I don't get you Bert. You send a nasty PM bashing me and calling me ignorant. You need to look at yourself, anyone that owns a Chrysler 300M is pretty ignorant because those things are so worthless with all their problems.



I should get 86'd, why? I bring up a few good points that you don't like since you own the truck? Come to the 2nd gen form and you can say you hate 2nd gens and I will make a comment without getting all worked up over it like you do. Do you support freedom of speech? If you do then you need to re-think what you are doing. I pay for this service just like you and have every right to my opinion.



In the end, If there was no such thing as a 94-02 CTD then a 3rd gen would be the truck I own right now. It is comfortable and a nice looking machine. However, it will never be as rugged and long lasting as a 12V truck. That is the point I am trying to make. Aside from everything, to the guy who wanted to know if he should keep his 2nd gen or go 3rd gen, keep the 2nd gen. It is already paid for and is a great truck! Good luck whatever you do...



For all the babies out their like Bert&Holli-

You have a nice truck, it might not be as great as mine but it is still a Cummins. . Geez, can you take a joke and get over it... Otherwise you might need to go see a cardiologist soon if you get all worked up over a stupid message board comment.

 

[Swayse]

Went from an 03 QC to a 97 RC. Love the 97, such a cool truck. Trans is done, and I'm doing twins in a few weeks. Depends on what you want. If you want a nice truck that doesn't need a whole lot of attention, or if you don't like turning your own wrenches, get a new one. If you just love the sound and the smell of an old goat, and don't mind working on it every now and then. Then sell you 99 and get a 12valve.

 

[KBertetto]

Excuse me? I don't get you Bert. You send a nasty PM bashing me and calling me ignorant. You need to look at yourself, anyone that owns a Chrysler 300M is pretty ignorant because those things are so worthless with all their problems.



I should get 86'd, why? I bring up a few good points that you don't like since you own the truck? Come to the 2nd gen form and you can say you hate 2nd gens and I will make a comment without getting all worked up over it like you do. Do you support freedom of speech? If you do then you need to re-think what you are doing. I pay for this service just like you and have every right to my opinion.



In the end, If there was no such thing as a 94-02 CTD then a 3rd gen would be the truck I own right now. It is comfortable and a nice looking machine. However, it will never be as rugged and long lasting as a 12V truck. That is the point I am trying to make. Aside from everything, to the guy who wanted to know if he should keep his 2nd gen or go 3rd gen, keep the 2nd gen. It is already paid for and is a great truck! Good luck whatever you do...



For all the babies out their like Bert&Holli-

You have a nice truck, it might not be as great as mine but it is still a Cummins. . Geez, can you take a joke and get over it... Otherwise you might need to go see a cardiologist soon if you get all worked up over a stupid message board comment.

Sounds like your the one all worked up, I just think you need to go.

 

[DPelletier]

Erik,



The first thing I would say is that your last post clarifies a couple of things for me. your not pro 2nd gen, your pro 12V (or anti 24V/HPCR). In that context you have some validity (IMO) that the 12V trucks are simpler and easier to maintain; BUT that's not what you've said for the most part. You posted that you basically think 3rd gen trucks are junk and aside from the fact that this perspective is erroneous at best, it definitely is antagonistic. I think it is naive of you not to expect the kind of reaction you got (especially since this isn't the first time).

Your thought process on your postings has been made clear to me with your comment about someone coming to the 2nd gen forums and posting that they hate 2nd gens; that would be equally antagonistic. If you want to debate the strengths AND weaknesses of 2nd gen trucks vs. 3rd gen trucks then feel free to do so, but for the most part, that's not what you have been doing.



Dave

 

[gsbrockman]

For all the babies out their like Bert&Holli-

You have a nice truck, it might not be as great as mine but it is still a Cummins. . Geez, can you take a joke and get over it... Otherwise you might need to go see a cardiologist soon if you get all worked up over a stupid message board comment.

I see it as a very informative and educational message board with several posts and threads from a stupid member by the name of EBottema.

Greg

 

[tschwab]

Like I said before, just ignore him and he can go enjoy his '96 12V forever. It is not even worth the effort to reply to someone like him, who has such a slanted view. You will never convince him and who really cares what HE thinks.



We all made our decisions to buy a 3G, I'm comfortable with my decision and am glad I made the move from a 2G and that is all that really matters.



Ignore him and his posts, go enjoy your new 3G and life is good. This forum is to share information, not for some idiot to come and bash others because we made a decision to buy a 3G and spout that his is so much better, because it is NOT

 

[jnelson]

After

12 u-joints

2 new sets of batteries

1 power sterring pump

1 hydro booster (brake booster)

2 torque convertors

1 second gear band

4 front rotors

2 front wheel bearings

1 APPS

Assorted sensors

2- VP44'$

3 lift pumps

1 right rear wheel seal

3 diff. front seals

1 rear seal on transmission

2 AC clutch's

3 belts

2 bottom radiator hoses

1 thermostat

and

433,000 hard S. Texas oilfield trailer towing rough road miles -



I bought another new Dodge

 

[Horsepuller]

Sorry I didn't buy a new model, but I was in the market and test drove a few. Everyone here is going to tend to be a little biased. No one is going to spend $30k + on a vehicle and then say their older model was superior. The new model truck should improve and be superior to the model it replaces, otherwise, no one new would buy it and existing owners wouldn't trade-up.



If money isn't an option, buy the new model. I traded up from a '93 to an '02, so imagine the improvements I am still getting used to. For instance, the 6 speed, the HO engine, the much improved ride, 4 wheel disc brakes, better cab layout, etc. Night and day over my '93.



What I don't like about the 3rd gen is the sound (or lack of it) and the cab layout. It seems sparse even with the Laramie package. I could get over that though. The only reason I sold my '93 was because my family grew and we needed a real back seat. Although the 3rd gen has real door, the room is the same in the back, at least it felt that way. So, this wasn't a deciding factor for me.



For me it was cost, the fact that I could get the exact truck I wanted for $15k less than buying new. But I still get weak in the knees when ever I see a sharp 3rd Gen dually pulling a nice load. Gives me something to look foward too.

 

[DPelletier]

Horsepuller,

All 3rd gen vs. 2nd gen crap aside, you have a great truck and should be proud of it. Truth be told, despite the fact that DC did make some real improvements with the 3rd gens, I'd still be driving my 2001. 5 if I was smart enough to get a 6spd dually the first time! I would argue that the 3rd gen QC has a fair bit more room than the 2nd gen QC, however.

I actually almost bought a truck very similar to yours (white '02 ETH DEE DRW) prior to getting my '03 and would have loved it as it was mint, but the dealer wanted too much for it and when I calculated the difference in interest rates between my line of credit and Chryslers 0% offering on the leftover '03, they were only 3 or 4 thousand dollars apart and I couldn't justify buying a truck with 60,000 kms on the clock at a price so close to a new one.

Anyway, I wanted to say that just because I believe DC made some solid improvements in the truck doesn't mean that I think the 2nd gen trucks aren't great trucks too. In fact, I'd rather have a used '02 like yours than a brand spanking new DM or PSD. Comments like "__ gen trucks are crap" don't belong on the TDR. We're better than this.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Ebottema, I sure glad you are plumb happy with your truck. Okay, everybody say in unison "Eric, you have the most neatest truck of all. Now lets all do the wave :-laf :-laf :-laf

After

12 u-joints

2 new sets of batteries

1 power sterring pump

1 hydro booster (brake booster)

2 torque convertors

1 second gear band

4 front rotors

2 front wheel bearings

1 APPS

Assorted sensors

2- VP44'$

3 lift pumps

1 right rear wheel seal

3 diff. front seals

1 rear seal on transmission

2 AC clutch's

3 belts

2 bottom radiator hoses

1 thermostat

and

433,000 hard S. Texas oilfield trailer towing rough road miles -



I bought another new Dodge

Jnelson, there is no doubt you have the best attitude around these parts. You could have started your own forum on complaints and repairs - but didn't as far as I know. Can't help but like a fella like that. Guess you are just too busy putting your truck to work, neh? Go figure.



Actually it says a lot for CTDs that we are griping about what is the BEST - and they are all Dodge CTDs.

 

[Sasquatch]

I love my '97 sled, but the past year has been expensive.



My Ram has 120,000 miles on it, and even though I've been very conscientious about doing all scheduled maintenance, it's been an expensive year. During the past 12 months I've replaced/added an ATS transmission, "Commander" controller, new ball-joints, ATS exhaust manifold, turbo, new master cylinder, front/rear brake lines, brake pads, second set of Optima red-tops etc. , etc. , etc.



Owning an older truck can get expensive if you want to keep it in really top condition. Things wear out and break, but at least on this old friend, I can do most of the work.



The new Rams are beautiful, and I'd love to have one, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to work on one the way I can my '97. There's no question that the newer trucks have vastly improved creature-comforts and safety features, but I want to know that I can fix whatever breaks, and the new electronics of the 3rd gens is/are beyond my abilities.



I'm at the point that a lot of guys reach with their trucks where I keep thinking, "Man, I've fixed the last thing I'm going to need to fix for a while," and then something else breaks.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I've been around the block, and went from a 2001 Ram to a 2003 and then I sold that for this '96 I have now.



I loved my '03 and I miss quite a few things about it, especially the rear floor platform and split rear seats, wheel controls, and niceties. It had nice power too, it was healthy out of the box (dynoed 270hp/500tq bone stock).



Interestingly enough when I sold it I found I was less attached to it than my '01. I had more problems with my '01 but there were quite a few things I liked about it better than the '03. It cruised down the highway with more ease (seemed to have less wind drag), I liked the view over the hood better, and I actually preferred the steering on it because it wasn't so quick ratio and was easier to track a straight line. And didn't jerk the wheel around as much when off roading. Both my '01 and '03s were 2-wheel drive shortbeds. The brakes on the '01 (drums in the rear) were close to the same performance as the '03. I much prefer the 3. 54 gears vs 3. 73s. But like I say the '01 wasn't perfect, the cab flexed and creaked a lot and it ate some lift pumps.



There was something about those two trucks that played a part in my ending up with a '96. I really disliked the electronic controls and unnatural feel of the throttle. The pedal of an electronically-controlled diesel never feels like it's connected to the engine. And I had rough idle issues with the '01 that were annoying, and the acceleration was always lumpy with the '03. Every 3rd Gen I've been in has always had less than perfect linear power delivery on acceleration, but mine was more noticeable.



No matter what route you take these trucks are expensive. The 3rd Gens cost more outright and generally won't cost a bunch until further down the road. This old truck of mine is paid for, but at 364,000 miles it has needed a few things. It's been more nickel & dime stuff. . . a few hundred here and there, but you also spend more time under the hood correcting things that are wearing out instead of putting on BOMBs.



This truck doesn't have the refinement of my '03, but I like it for what it is. . . it feels like a real truck, a bit rough around the edges, wanders around a bit, throws more smoke and rattles and shakes more. But I like it. The fact it's paid for makes it easier to like too.



Vaughn

 

[Sasquatch]

Great post, Vaughn, and fun to read. I think we share a brain, not to mention a love of diesel pickup trucks.



I hear you about the "paid for" concept. I can rationalize just about any dumb-assed expenditure on this truck by observing, sagely, "Hey, no payments. "



I've spent the past 25 years of my life as an independent contractor, carpenter, and dad. I have a grown son and daughter, and I've hauled my daughter's stuff all over the southeast in this rig, with the Cummins happily ("I think I can") pulling four-poster beds, chests of drawers, stereo systems, and wardrobes from college in Charlotte, NC to teaching post in the northern Georgia mountains, and from apartments to first home.



The Cummins has been a bridge between me and my son, when we weren't agreeing, or able to talk about much of anything else, but still could spend hours together cussing and skinning knuckles, side by side.



My Dodge has pulled friends and in-laws out of ditches, and the winch got me off the top of a muddy mountain in Highlands, NC, and home for Thanksgiving dinner a couple of years ago, too; if I had been in any other truck, I'd still be sitting there batting snowflakes and wondering how venison tasted, raw.



The Ram carried me to my dad's bedside in Roseburg, OR, when he passed four Easters ago, and gave me a chance to collect my wits driving across the hills, plains, and mountains of this great country. I drove 3200 miles in three days from Atlanta to Roseburg, the last 18 hour day from Rock Springs, WY, to Salt Lake City, to a dawn sunrise contemplating sunlight on the flanks of Mt. Hood from the floor of the Columbia River valley. This Ram's been with me through periods of great happiness but some bad times, too, and it's provided cheap "couch time" from Oregon to Texas to Maine to the Florida Keys and back home to Georgia again. There's nothing as calming as the vibes of that mighty six straightening out the knots in my spine.



I don't think there are any bad Rams; it's just as you said, each model year has its charms. My wife wants me to get a new truck, because my body's falling apart, and she thinks I'd be more comfortable and look like less of a hick in one of the newer models. The extra pair of doors in the back would be nice, for starters; plus, I'm going to need to reupholster the front seats (or my bony ass) pretty soon, too.



I also love the "rough edges," and I love the sounds and smells of a working rig with a Cummins melting the snow off the hood. When this truck is no longer a friend, I'll sell it. I told my wife to plan on renting an excavator and laying me out in my best duds on the front seat when the time comes.



You done good, Clessie.

 

[crobertson1]

I'd like to weigh in here. I had an '01. 5 2500 QC 4x4 auto with 3. 55s. IMO, it was the best of 2nd gens because it was the most refined, with 4 wheel disc brakes and still had hood liner, quarter panel inner liner,etc. That being said, without trying to step on any toes, my new truck is far superior. Steering, brakes, ride, quality, noise or lack thereof, power, it's all better. I had a 4" exhaust and barely a muffler on my '01, so the thunderous exhaust note was my own fault, but I got to where I couldn't stand it while towing, or at a drive through! The quiet is enjoyable for me and my family on camping trips with our TT. I will say also, if I had a 6 speed in the old truck, I probably would have done the cab sound deadening project and kept it forever and not known the joy of a 3rd gen. It was a great truck.



About the bickering here, I'll say if you haven't spent any time in a 3rd gen, you're really not qualified to offer opinions and probably should refrain from spewing derogatory comments.

 

[gsbrockman]

About the bickering here, I'll say if you haven't spent any time in a 3rd gen, you're really not qualified to offer opinions and probably should refrain from spewing derogatory comments.

Amen, crobertson1.