TO EDM OR NOT TO EDM What is the consenus

[Mark_Kendrick]

People are knocking the HY30 without all the info.



Merv gained ~40hp on the dyno (499 rwhp overall power) over an HX40-16.



He lost . 3 sec overall but. . the 13. 4 pass was on a dry 40-50* winter day. the 13. 7 pass was on a 80*+ muggy early summer day.



Everybody here knows that atmosheric conditions have a big effect on performance.



He has a problem where when he's staging the truck is falling on it's face at 15 psi or so. We ar tying to work it out now. I suspect that his 60' time issues will disappear when we resolve it. Notice that he looses 2 of those 3 tenths in the 60'.



I don't doubt that a 35 or 40 on top would flow more and make more overall hp... . By the way any hx-35W is a bolt in swap... But to make more HP than he has now he needs more fuel. Show me another truck on a VP pump with DD3s making 500hp!!!!! That is a feat in itself.



Merve was wanting the most streetable HP he could get. Quick spoolup was paramount to control smoke.



I will not argue that for high hp and high rpm that bigger turbos are better. For a daily driver??? Merve has an all but smoke free 500hp truck that only makes 1300* preturbo egts with his Edge drag comp on 5x5. Last time I checked that is nirvana for urbanites trying to avoid the EPA Nazis.



He's got a truck with 100hp injectors and a ~160hp box making 300hp over stock. What could be better??



Comments???



Later,

Mark

 

[jwilliams3]

So who makes the best injector?



:-laf :-laf

 

[Diesel Freak]

 

[Huff N Puff]

Hey Mark glad to hear from you.

The question Ive been pondering is can I put a bigger waste gate in to maintain the low end spoolup, but bypass the small turbo with a bigger waste gate to help spollup the big turbo for the top end. Merv

 

[Jetpilot]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick:

He's got a truck with 100hp injectors and a ~160hp box making 300hp over stock. What could be better??

How about 590 HP on 100 HP injectors?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

If you get too large a gate you will get a surge and gate flutter as the gate opens and closes and the turbo cycles.



if you relieve too much the turbo despools insted of not spooling more.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by Jetpilot

How about 590 HP on 100 HP injectors?

You don't do it with a VP44 though

 

[wsteffes]

People are knocking the HY30 without all the info.

I don't really think thats what was intended.

Just freindly advice and comments.



The only problems I had with the HY30 was high exhaust pressures and high egt,s not in short hard runs empty but in long heavily loaded hauls.

Friend that used to play with diesel farm tractors started to help. First thing he said was get gauges and probes (above and beyond what most of us have) we have to be able to monitor whats happening to tune it right.

Long story shorter- HY30 was working to hard at the higher boost levels, air was hot. Tried larger wastegate helped but still couldn't control air pressure ratios between the two turbos. Went to a second waste with the first smaller one. More tuneablity - air temps went down, exhaust pressure much better, egts never a problem.

With these two turbos air volume and pressures are there but how you get there really does vary.

Not knocking or bashing just a personal experience.

One more thing anyone that has Hugh Maclnnes old book Turbochargers check out pages 72 and 73 made a modified version to connect top turbo exhaust to bottom. It works on diesels too. Redirects swirl into direct flow, drives turbo sooner and harder. Should work on any pairing.

Bill



Harry from Piers called yesterday my stage two oringed head and

a coupled of turbos are on the skid and being shipped today.

Yep going to do it again this time with 03 HO 6speed. Lets see if I do neater welds this time around.

 

[TxDieselKid]

I'm not saying they are better then anyone else's, but I am very happy with my JR Adkins.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

The setup that is set here uses the WG to adjust the PR of the HY30. That is how boost is controlled.



Open the WG up and the HY will barely make boost at all and the engine drives the BHT3B almost asif it were a single. . laggy low overall boost 35-40psi max.



Lock the WG shut and you can peg a 60psi gauge in 2nd on a 5spd.



I know that larger pinwheels make lower temps at high PRs. The trick is not needing high PRs.



At 60 psi in the intake manifold drive pressure is about 3% lower than boost.



The HY is not for all out HP but will make 600hp rather easily. The Idea is to make the boost down low and really quickly to keep smoke down while making pretty big HP without revving to the moon.

 

[Diesel Freak]

hmmm I wonder what would happen if you wasted a PDR40 at a 20 PSI delta P.

 

[Jetpilot]

Mark,



Who has made 600 HP with a HY setup? I don't believe that it is possible to wastegate enough exhaust gas through the Extreme wastegate to keep drive pressure within check at anywhere close to 600 HP. Maybe somewhere aroud 400 HP drive pressures would be OK... ..... The wastgate is 42mm and makes several 90* turns plus whatever other angles that the pipe has. All of these add to restrictions within the system.



Personally I think that by going to a larger exhaust housing or a different turbo the efficiency would be much improved.



Doug

 

[Hammer]

Ok...

Now I REALLY tried to stay away from this because I can see where I will need to dawn my flame on suit. BUT,I could not so here I go... .



Mark. .

At the risk of sounding like you do not have your facts straight could be the only reason you would even boast such a comment like this one... .

"Show me another truck on a VP pump with DD3s making 500hp!!!!! That is a feat in itself. "

HMMMM.....

How many sheets/dyno runs do you need to see to show you a statement like that is way out of line. Heck,just a little spin thru the over 900 Dyno-Jet/Mustang runs I have here and I see about 35 or more making that with a single wheel and a VP44. It can and has been done and I am certain that other here can attest to that. That includes both TDR and Non-TDR trucks.



Now,I'll say it again and ask the very same question as I did once before... ...

Can someone explain to me this to me... .

How can you not expect to have the very problems listed when you have air flowing ways that go against all known characteristics learned on a flow bench??.



Not a flame shot,just my observations from all the pics I have seen of these and what I have learned from way too many trips to have stuff flowed for that little extra sought... ... ..... Andy

 

[Huff N Puff]

Hey Andy why do you have to get so belligerent

All Mark said was getting 500hp out of DDIIIs and a VP44 was a feat why did that bother so much. By the way the set up Mark put together for me worked wonderfully for me. Its very streetable I burn most of my fuel very little smoke. I'm tickled at the way the twins work. Merv

 

[Hammer]

Merv...

I guess what you consider "belligerent"is my attitude I guess??. I don't see it,500 rwp,as a feat with a VP44 & DD3's. The fuel system flowing correctly,the right computer box,good injectors,hybrid turbo,a stout transmission to back it up and a whole lot of "cubic money", along with blood sweat and tears while tuning the combo and your in like flint.



You,yourself,have explained that the truck since the twins install is not correct. ("With the old HX40 I ran a 13. 3, with the twins I ran a 13. 7"). Now,was this run in comparable weather conditions and track conditions with all things completely the same??. If the answer is yes then we'll move on.



See Merv,since we all know that DD3's are only a meare advertised 7hp lower than the famed 370 marine injectors and able to make simular HP with less smoke how could the truck be running out of fuel. There are ALOT of potent 12 valvers who live by and make gaggles of "streetable" power with the 370's and easily make the HP quoted above. Now,IF its a fuel delivery system problem and your VP not being able to be fed enough to feed the DD3's then we are off on another road. Personally,I'd say its a combo of problems your having. One being not enough supply for the demand needed.



One major problem I'd bet on with your truck is airflow restriction,hence my question above,which you took as belligerent. Turbulence is a major HP killer in a intake system. Look some other systems over and if I am incorrect I'll be the first to admit it. I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday and do know a little about this. I will admit to not being able to being very diplomatic,I just call them as I see them.



One thing I have learned in my years of owning,driving,wrench twisting my vechicles in the quest of the "elusive extra HP" is this. Just because the smoke and mirrors show says "big power to be gained",it does not mean in one of your applications it will work. Research prevents "cubic money"from being spent and allows for a better bang for the buck. Just something a good friend and longtime racer taught me along time ago.



I'll depart this thread with this... .

Its ultimately your truck and your decision. You asked for opinions and they were given,sorry if you don't care for mine.

Happy HP hunting... ..... Andy

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Hammer,



He was asking about EDMs and performance on a 24v. not a 12v.



He was referring not to any 100hp injector but specifically a Diesel Dynamics stage 3 injector.



370 - 235 = 125hp. DD advertises a 100 hp gain over stock. stock on his truck is 235hp (~215RWHP).



I stated earlier that his results were not in similar track conditions.



I have seen lots of trucks dyno with a single, box(es), exhaust, and DD3s at around 450-460... just like Merve did. He then swaps his single HX40 for my inefficient and turbulent compund turbos and gets 40 more RWHP. He also got rid of all but all of the smoke and got a set of tubos that spool yesterday. To quote him he's 'tickled'. Another satisfied customer.



I talked to him today,he managed another 1. 8 60' Times are still in the 13. 60s i believe, I'll let Merve give the specifics. But again its a 85-90* muggy day again and not the ideal cool dry day he ran the 13. 3x on.



Maybe you bumped your head when you fell off that turnip truck :-laf:-laf

 

[Proram]

40 More RwHP for HOW much $$$$$ WOW i coulda dun that w/ a Banks kit

thats all i'll say! Scott

 

[Huff N Puff]

I just wanted to thank all that contributed positive useful information

to this topic and to thoughs of you that were quick to trash ones hard work and reputation. I hope you guys put a little thought into your posts. We are in the TDR to help each other,I shouldn't let these negative posts bother me, but they do. Merv