Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) "To Prime or not To Prime ?!" that is the question

[EBozard]

Ok this is what happened. I changed the oil and fuel filter. And boy was the fuel filter clogged ! whewww, Anyways. Cycled the lift pump several times and then tried to crank. She cranked for a second then shut off to never crank again. I cycled and cycled the lift pump. Dang thing would not pump fuel. So i changed it with a used spare i had. I didn't know if the spare was any good or not. The old one would run fast and loud, the spare weak and quiet. STILL no fuel to filter. So i pressurized the the tank by blowing into it with a hose and rag. Cracked the fuel line to the IP. I finally after a few good puffs fuel squirted out. I cracked 3 Injector lines and pressurized the tank again while my father turned the starter over. She popped off a couple times but still she didn't prime and the dang lift pump STILL didn't pump fuel to the IP.

So after saying all that, where is the best place to get a lift pump ? or is it better to put an after market underside in place of the original. thanks

 

[B.G. Smith]

Some of the auto parts places are carrying the pump now, Advance has or can get the Carter for a little under $250. 00. I hear that the dealers are now selling intank pumps as replacement?? bg

 

[RAJohnson]

Some times priming the system after changing the FF can take a little bit. Yes the truck can run with out a LP working. But you mentioned that your old filter was really plugged up. So i am assuming that after you put in the new one it is going to take quite a bit to prime it. If you leave all of the system connected and only crack the #2 fuel line going to the injector at the head and try to prime the system do you see any fuel at all. It may take quite a few times to get fuel to there. I would suggest trying again before replacing the LP with either a factory or after market. I prefer the FASS. Make sure you get a fuel pressure gauge right away. This is the best way to keep on top of the LP.

 

[Moose Truck]

I have bought the NAPA lift pump. It was about $160. 00ish. It went bad after 6-Months, they warenteed it and got me another one. It's been a year and now the next one I buy. So, I'd recommend the FASS Pump only, No filters. They are about $360ish, however, they will last much longer. try:



http://www.acptee.com/dieselpp/fuelpump.html



There are a ton of posts for these pumps and a bunch of vendors selling these pumps on the TDR, so do a shearch on them. Also, get a Fuel Pressure Gauge, and never let the FP get under 6 PSI No Matter What!! The VP44 is $1200+ and you will toast it if you have no Fuel Pressure. Moose 00 Oo.

 

[Holzarbeiter]

98. 5-99 have bleed valves on top of the the filter mount, crack the one furthest from the engine (that should be pre filter) and see if you got fuel, if that is good go to the next and see if you get fuel there (post filter).

If you are sure your lift pump is dead, options are numerous and depending on how fare you want to go with bombs will determine what fuel upgrade you want to performe. Big line kit and relocating the pump are to good bombs that are fairly inexpensive.

 

[EBozard]

I called Advance, $250, wow !

I called Napa , $200, but he stated it calls for a fuel pump in the tank ?

Is this true ?

 

[MBFARMS]

Try www.hoeslidiesel.com or your local cummins dealer. Part#3990082 (this is a kit that includes the wiring harness for the 98. 5-99 models) - $139 +frt from hoesli or the pump by inself is 3990105. Just ordered one for my truck today. The local Cummins place wanted 147 +tax.

 

[EBozard]

Got one from cummins today, $172.

I installed it, immediately got fuel to IP, i crack IP line and let the pump run for a while to bleed off any air in line and filter. Then crack 1,3,4,5 injector lines to bleed. I turned her over and over. Nothing, not a squirt.

I finally after 10-15 minutes of starting and battery getting weak. I pulled the tube going to the manifold and sprayed WD40 to help her start. She half cranked and FINALLY #1 injector sqeeted. But none of the others, she did try to start one time, but still no crank. I left it alone after about 15 minutes of this. any ideas ?

 

[Rebel Ram]

After all that "cranking" you have run the IP empty. Crack open the relief valve and wait for airless fuel there. Then procede to the injector lines.

Not to add fire to this but im always amazed that people take a vehicle that was running and do some maintainence to one thing and when it wont start they spend money on replacing parts that were working before. Always try to slow down and think logicaly and try to reason out problems.

 

[Demons_Ram]

I'm a little late on this but... .



Looking at the specs on the 4601HP CRT-P4601HP, it looks like it would be suitable for use for our injection pumps. Specs say it free flows 100 gallons per hour and the maximum pressure possible is 18 psi.





http://store.summitracing.com/



Brand: Carter

Product Line: Carter Universal Rotary Vane Electric Fuel Pumps

Free Flow Rate: 100 gph <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Maximum Pressure (psi): 18 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Inlet Size: 3/8 in. NPT

Inlet Quantity: Single

Inlet Attachment: Female threads

Outlet Size: 3/8 in. NPT

Outlet Quantity: Single

Outlet Attachment: Female threads

Quantity: Sold individually.



Fuel Pump, Electric, Competition Series Black Pump, Rotary Vane, External, Universal, Each



Check to make sure this part fits your application

Get the fuel flow you need.

These universal rotary vane electric fuel pumps from Carter operate using leaded and unleaded gasoline, gasohol, and fuel boosters. They have an internal pressure regulating valve, and feature free-flow fuel delivery. These pumps have no points to burn out, and no shaft seals to leak or deteriorate. Easy to install, these universal fuel pumps come with a complete installation package and instructions.





The many threads I read on lift pumps/Preperator/FASS/RASP pumps suggest fuel pressures need to be in the mid to high teens but, not sure about volume (gpm/gph) of flow.



I believe that generally on a pressurized/ non-bypass fuel pump system, volume should go up as pressure goes down, and volume goes down as pressure goes up... like modulating your thumb over the end of a running water hose, correct?

So, determining what minimum/maximum volume (gpm/gph flow rate), and the minimum/maximum line pressure, the VP injector pump is happy with is the trick.



These pumps are priced around a hundred dollars and look physically like the factory ones.



Several threads have mentioned leaving the factory lift pump on and using the Carter 4600HP as a pusher mounted closer to the fuel tank with success.



The 4600HP specs at 100 gallons per hour but, only 7psi.



These things weren't designed to pull fuel from the opposite end of the vehicle. They were designed to be close to the fuel source, and push the fuel.

 

[TGibbs]

To pressurize my whole system (upgraded banjo lines, RASP and new injector pump) it took four times of the pump buzzing for 20 secs each and about 25-30 secs of cranking on the starter. I then got air bubbles at the injector lines so I tightened them all up and shecoughed a few times and started, coughed and smoothed out nicely.

 

[EBozard]

Where is this bleed/relief vavle at for the IP ? I got the SOB to crank and stay running by ether,she ran about 5-10 minutes BUT when i shut her off and try to restart, she won't restart. I am stumped !

 

[Rebel Ram]

The relief valve is the banjo style fastener just in front of the fuel inlet line on the VP.

 

[MCummings]

If your lift pump was dead before you did a FF change, and you replace your lift pump now, I give your '44 about 6 months. It's terminal.



P0216 soon.



You might be lucky, but I've seen 4 posts this week about the exact situation you are in.



---------



The new trucks have a in-tank Lift Pump, and there is a retrofit kit for the 2nd gens, but the Fuel pressure is very low. I have a hard time thinking that if fuel pressure is low, then fuel flow is low, but that's just me.



Yes, a Carter 4601HP should pop right in there fine and dandy. Pick one up from www.summitracing.com



Merrick

 

[litespeed]

EBozard,



I go through this everytime I change my fuel filter. Interestingly enough, I did it again yesterday. I cycled the pump about 10 times. I could not get it to prime. Tried to start... ... . Ran for a second, then nothing..... I started fiddling around with the drain valve on the filter (with the pump running). After 2 more cycles of fiddling with the drain valve... ... The pump finally "pulled down" (primed).



I dont know if it was luck that it primed or if fiddling with the drain valve actually made a difference. Just a thought? If you have the same filter set up (with the valve).



I also found the drain valve to stick open if it has not been used in a while resulting in Fuel Everywhere.....

 

[EBozard]

Ok fellas, i am really stumped now. I can crank her up on ether. She run fine, i let her run 15-20 minutes, but when i shut her off and try to restart, she WILL NOT start back up. What gives ? Sensor maybe ?

 

[jmtandem]

I have had to cycle the lift pump and bleed the air bubbles out of the injection pump bleed valve at the same time to get the air out of the lines, usually will start right up (about five seconds) but just letting the lift pump cycle without a bleed at the injection pump has not worked for me. Wait until the air bubbles are gone with the lift pump cycling, it might take four or five 20 second times cycling the key.

 

[MCummings]

What codes do you have?



Merrick

 

[EBozard]

Alright fellas, i was stumped before, but now hmmmmmm ? I cranked her up, on ether AGAIN. I drove her around for 30 minutes, snorting her, heavy accelerating, revving the engine, etc. I stopped after 30 minutes of driving, shut her off, then tried to crank her back, but to no prevail. All she does is turn over and over. Nothing !

Now i think by driving her around for 30 minutes, i would think all the air was out of the system. I think it is something else besides air ? What, i don't know.

 

[EBozard]

MCummings, i don't have a code reader. This is a 98. 5 model. You got to have a scanner. I am going to call Cummins today and see if they will look at it. thanks