tongue weight

[GHerrmann]

I am going to measure the tongue weight on my tt using the bathroom scale and beam method. I understand the way to do it but what do the pipes on top of the scale and brick do?



I think it might keep the weight from spreading out across the scale, and giving a false weight. And the one on the brick keeps the height even.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Not sure what "brick" you might be referring to - or the method - but here's how I described it in an ancient post on this board:

Seems lots of 5th wheel owners know the TOTAL weight of their fiver - and the weight of their truck - but FEW seem to have any clue as to the actual pin weight of their trailer - and where they actually are as to the GVWR for their specific truck.



GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - weight truck or trailer ALONE can legally weigh.

GVW = Gross vehicle Weight - What the truck or trailer ACTUALLY weighs.

GCWR = Gross Combined Weight Rating - What the truck AND trailer combined can legally weigh, max.



Fact is, you can be WAY over the GVWR for you truck, and still be below the GCWR for that same combo! Take my own 24 foot Kit fiver - using the method outlined below, my pin weight is nearly 1200 lbs. Since my truck loaded weight is 8000 lbs, and is rated at 8800 lbs GVW max, I'm already nearly *400 lbs* over my truck's GVWR even with a seemingly puny 24 foot fiver that weighs less than 7000 lbs loaded!



How overloaded do you think the guys are pulling a 33 foot 5er that weighs 12,000 lbs? :-laf :-laf



Well, having a little extra time on my hands, I decided to try weighing my 24 foot Kit 5er pin weight using the method below.



I used an 8 foot 4x4, resting one end on a steady-rest, placed the 5er pin in exactly 12 inches - and the loading point of the bathroom scales out at the 6 foot mark:

-

THEN, after zeroing the scale, dropped the weight of the 5er onto the 4x4, and THIS is the result:



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196 pounds, times the 6 foot overall length of the 4x4 gives us 1176 lbs. The manufacturers claimed dry pin weight for my trailer is 950 pounds - but I have added a pair of large and heavy golf car batteries up at the front of the 5er, and have 2 full propane tanks there as well - I also have added an air conditioner and full length awning, plus a few other items kept packed inside the trailer for travel - so that pretty well accounts for an added 225 pounds or so - and I also acknowledge that this test was done on slightly uneven ground, so actual weight could be slightly off - but certainly close enough for this purpose...



SO, fact is, I have LOTS of GCWR left - but am well over my truck's GVW...



Have YOU ever actually weighed the pin weight of your 5er - or are you just GUESSING and keeping yer fingers crossed? :-laf

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OH - by the way, I have since verified the results demo'd above SEVERAL times on commercial scales...

 

[Nate]

Any easier way IMO would be to pull up on the scales.



I just pulled my truck on the scale with enough room to put the landing gear down on the trailer with it off the scale. Weigh the truck. Lift the trailer, weigh the truck. Weight difference is the tongue weight.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Any easier way IMO would be to pull up on the scales.



I just pulled my truck on the scale with enough room to put the landing gear down on the trailer with it off the scale. Weigh the truck. Lift the trailer, weigh the truck. Weight difference is the tongue weight.

Amazing the number of folks who ASSUME we all live near a truck scale! :-laf



OR, that the busy ones we DO occasionally pass, are willing to stop all other commercial traffic so we can go thru the drill of isolating RV hitch weight from total GCW...



Sorry Charlie - for at least SOME of us, it just don't work that way - so the above is an easy, back-yard substitute...

 

[EricBu12]

Well I am so far over my GVW and GCVW that I will need to get a ford F-650 with the cummins option!. weighed my setup last week and am at 26,650. . not over on any axle or tire thanks to the 19. 5" comercials and I tow a double axle utility behind the 5er... . so 7 axle, 14 wheels. . (17 counting the spares. . one for each)... . whew!

 

[Nate]

Dude, there is no way that there isn't a scale within 30-40 miles of where you live unless you live on the top of a Mtn in a cave.

Doesn't have to be a truck stop. Steel yards, landfills, logging areas, concrete yards, farms etc often have scales. Just look in the Yellow pages. Some of them might be run by an old timer that has nothing better to do anyhow.

I just happened to use one on base. Theh computer was locked up, but the readout is facing the window, so you can still use it, just no printout.

By the way, my name is Nate, not Charlie.

Amazing the number of folks who ASSUME we all live near a truck scale! :-laf

OR, that the busy ones we DO occasionally pass, are willing to stop all other commercial traffic so we can go thru the drill of isolating RV hitch weight from total GCW...

Sorry Charlie - for at least SOME of us, it just don't work that way - so the above is an easy, back-yard substitute...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Dude, there is no way that there isn't a scale within 30-40 miles of where you live unless you live on the top of a Mtn in a cave.

STILL don't "get" the concept, do ya! :-laf



In the time it takes YOU to hitch up yer rig and DRIVE that 60-80 mile round trip, I'll have already got my stuff together, and have my 5er hitch weight measured and everything put back - without starting an engine or rolling a tire!



AND, if I do my setup as described earlier, I'll probably be within 50-100 lbs of what that distant commercial scale produces in results.



Re-read the lead post, the guy is undoubtedly aware of the existence of commercial scales - but THAT wasn't his question, was it!



OH, and sorry Charlie, but I *DO* live "on top of a mountain", out here in eastern Oregon! :-laf:-laf

 

[Nate]

No, I was just suggesting another way that it could be done. The way you have it setup works just fine if you can't get the trailer to a scale.

If a guy doesn't have the tall pipe stands though, obviously it wouldn't work... which is why I mentioned the scales.

(Let's say I'm pulling a camper to go camping, it would be easy for me to pull up on a scale when I came across one. )

I pull 10K rated flatbed trailer with my Jeep, so the tongue weight is very adjustable by moving the Jeep fore or aft. It was easy for me to use the scale on base since it's not used very often and was after hours. Once I got an acceptable tongue weight, I screwed a 2x4 to the deck and that's where I pull the Jeep to.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

No, I was just suggesting another way that it could be done.



Not everyone has tall pipe stands like you have, the same way you might not live near a weigh scale.



That might mean the guy has 10 sets of those, or lives 1/4 mile from a scale.



All I posted was another way to skin a cat so to speak.



Want me to call you Joe Jim Bob instead of Gary? My name is Nate not Charlie!

YUP, my way was just an alternate - offered to reply to a specific question - it seems reasonable to assume the guy DOES have the necessary components, or why would he ask for the smaller details?



And my responses to you specifically were in fun - the smilies were sincere, and I guess you have never seen the old Tuna commercials from a couple of decades back featuring "Charlie" the Tuna - again, intended in fun, not as an insult, sorry if it offended you.



Pleasure to meet you Nate - I occasionally make the NW Bomber's meets in the Boise area - be nice to maybe catch you at one of those...



Regards



Gary

 

[GHerrmann]

Sorry I started a big stink. just wanted to get a weight so I could set up my W. D. hitch. It would be a lot faster to toss some blocks and a scale down than to drive to a scale. Even harder when your disabled and your hitch is not set up properly. It takes me about 4 times longer to do something than healthy people.



Guy H.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

NAH - no "big stink" - just a case of mistaken/misinterpreted motivations and purposes - some of us DO have reasons for doing things "another way" from the norm - hope you get your rig weight figured out OK...



Regards



Gary

 

[Nate]

Sorry about stealing your thread with my bickering Guy. I guess I was in a grumpy mood when I was posting, because reading it now, I was wondering why I even posted that.



Gary... I've never heard of the Charlie thing... probably before my time actually haha (I'm "only" 24)

 

[Allnew2Me]

Here is a commercial scale and some good info. LOADMASTER Scales

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Sorry about stealing your thread with my bickering Guy. I guess I was in a grumpy mood when I was posting, because reading it now, I was wondering why I even posted that.



Gary... I've never heard of the Charlie thing... probably before my time actually haha (I'm "only" 24)

Nate, no worries!



I sometimes get myself in trouble for assuming others share my particular brand of (weird!) sense of humor - then I pay for my mistake... :-laf



The "Charlie" thing WAS before your time - I'm 70 - and was related to a Tuna called Charlie who was always attempting to rig a way around things to be considered as acceptable for use in the brand of Tuna being advertised. He always got caught, and was told, "Sorry Charlie... " - and that became a pretty popular response in those days.



Again - hope to meet and shake you hand at some future NW area diesel event!

 

[Mrudolph]

The "Charlie" thing WAS before your time - I'm 70 - and was related to a Tuna called Charlie who was always attempting to rig a way around things to be considered as acceptable for use in the brand of Tuna being advertised. He always got caught, and was told, "Sorry Charlie... " - and that became a pretty popular response in those days.



Star Kist doesn't want tunas with good taste, Star Kist wants tunas that taste good. sorry had to do it.

 

[Grizzly]

Well I am so far over my GVW and GCVW that I will need to get a ford F-650 with the cummins option!. weighed my setup last week and am at 26,650. . not over on any axle or tire thanks to the 19. 5" comercials and I tow a double axle utility behind the 5er... . so 7 axle, 14 wheels. . (17 counting the spares. . one for each)... . whew!

What kind of mileage do you get?

 

[Grizzly]

What I did when I had a 5th wheel is I called my local sand and gravel company and asked if I could weigh my truck empty, then my truck with 5er. They agreed. I weighed the truck empty, 1st WT. Then I went home, just a few miles away, and hook up the 5er, went back to the sand and gravel company scale and weighed the trailer with the truck off the scale, 2nd WT. Then I weighed the truck and trailer together, 3rd WT. When I got home, I subtracted the truck empty, 1st WT from the total weight of the truck and trailer, 3rd WT. That's the weight of the trailer. Then I subtracted the weight of the trailer with the truck connected, but off the scale, 2nd WT, from the total weight of truck and trailer, 3rd WT. That's the pin weight.



Trailer weight = WT3 - WT-1

Pin weight = WT3 - WT2