tools....best bang for buck

[RACE427]

More on tools

Snap-On is like the Rolls Royce of tools and still the best by far! Snap On gets it done... . period!!

Matco is like a Cadillac also very innovative and has beautiful tool chests. I would rate them as #2

MAC I hear is owned by Stanley and have heard horror stories about their Reps and warranty. Rate them as #3

Craftsman will not stand up to the daily grind and abuse professional mechanics put their tools through. I would hate to be in the middle of a high pressure repair and then have a Craftsman tool give out! Who cares about their so called lifetime warranty when I cannot get the vehicle repaired, due to a broken tool, in a timely manner and the customer wants his vehicle as of 1 hour ago!! Been there, done that!! Craftsman is just plain to heavy, awkward and clumsy for everyday use by a Pro Mechanic/Tech. Ok for the home owner, but this is where it ends. I started with Craftsman when I was in high school. Their quality has gotten alot cheaper through the years. No comparison at all what-so-ever to Snap-On.

Any doubt, check out www.iATN.org or .com for more information from the guys in the trenches! They will give you the real scoop of what you will need to truly purchase. Great oppotuities await you in the Diesel Mecahics industry!! Learn your electronics as this is where it's at!! The days of no brains and all brawn are over!! It is a "Hi Tech" industry out there in the real world. Good Luck!!

 

[A Johnson]

If you can swing it go with Snap-On, my only complaint is the design of the wrenches. They kill my hands.



A Johnson

 

[DLove]

Hey everybody I'm a new guy here (3 months) and don't need to post very often thanks to all the wisdom already written. But I'm at the opposite end of your situation. 2 years ago I got out of the service and went to a 2 year school (UTI Houston and the International grad school). I agree with all the other posts, I love my IR 1/2" composite impact and have craftsman and snapon tools. But have you thought about Husky. Now I know its kinda generic, but if you need tools fast you can get one of their big sets and a tool box and can start out fine. I tried to get only snap on and craftsman tools, but you get hungry if you only have 6 expensive tools in your box rather than a less expensive set. Besides as you upgrade them for the good stuff you can move them to the garage/ truck tool box. Oh and be sure to use any student discounts!!!

 

[JoshPeters]

Well... here's my two cents. I went to UTI Chicago, then to Mercedes-Benz ELITE in Orlando. I spent as much as I possibly could on Snap-on and Matco tools. I have NEVER regretted any of my purchases from either company. I figure I have around $40,000 invested in tools. The proof is in the usage. I have worked on things at home, with my Craftsman tools and had the wrench jaws open, where I could see them flex with my own eyes, and slip off. Throw the wrench in the bin, and grab a Snap-on Flank Drive and spin it right out. Ratchets, the Craftsmen wratchets the teeth can not hold up to daily use. I break tools on a pretty regular basis. Craftsman I have 3 tools that they don't carry anymore. Sorry. Snap-on never a problem. I might have to wait a week, but it is always there. I have broken a tool on a tuesday(tool guy comes on thurs) Called him and he has it with him on thursday!



Keep in mind, your mind, your tools, and your hands are what will make you money. Don't go Cheep on your Schooling, or your tools, your hands will do the rest. Cheep tools will hurt your hands. Any one of the 3 is missing, you won't make money.



Electronic tools, Get a GOOD DVOM (digital volt ohm meter) and learn how to use it. You'll need it. I have a good DVOM, an Ocilliscope, an Amp Clamp, 2 styles of trouble light, a good set of wire leads, and a good soldering set.



Sockets, Get 6 point sockets. 12 point are great for hot-rods, and studs. When you have a rusted bolts, you want all the "grab" you can get before it strips. Get a cheep set of 12 point sockets from Wallmart.



I have an entire bin of "Sacrifical tools" I went to Walmart and got a cheep set of wrenches, and sockets and torx sockets. If I have something that I know I'm going to abuse a torx (stripped, take the next size up and pound it in) I use those. That wrench needs another bend in it... no problem... grab the torch, heat it up and put the bend in the cheep wrench. You'll get the job done, your good tools are still there nice and shiny. Next time you need to do that job... you'll have the bent wrench to do it even faster.



Any more questions feel free to ask!

Josh

 

[JFinke]

I started Auto Tech in 91 and did Diesel Tech in 93. The Snap-On rep came around and we could do a one time order. They listed different sets that the different colleges wanted you to have. I picked a set for a different school, and a heavy equipment program as I was only going to get one shot, and wanted as much as I could get at the discount. I also got the rollaway and top box even though I planned on getting a bigger box. The local dealer gave me list price trade in on the new boxes later that day when I traded them in on a new KR1000 rollaway. I spent 10,700. 00 that day but it would've cost over 17000. 00 on the local truck. I own a few Mac, proto, and SK tools, but only buy snap-on. The rest just don't feel right in my hands. Since 91 I've spent about 125,000. 00 on tools.



The only non snap-on tools I would recommend are Fluke meters, Starret measuring tools, Vise-grip vise grips, Channel Lock channel locks, OTC anything, Milwaukee drills and Rigid pipe wrenches. Top of the line tools will save you time and money in the long run. Jake

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Bear with me guys, this is long, but I think to a new mechanic starting out or even to a technical school student, worth it. I wish someone had told me this stuff starting out. Oh, the money I would have saved not upgrading later.

I came out of the Navy with nothing but a moderate set my dad gave me from Sears back in highschool. No impacts, just chromies and Wrenches. My tool storage consisted of 5 three drawer chest boxes that were broken down individually to one box for metric/standard/screwdrivers etc. The individual boxes made it easy for me to take tools home at night without unloading a big tool chest into cardboard boxes or some makeshift container. It worked until I could get a rollaway chest and start building up with Snap On's at work. I had a service cart at work and home. Depending on the school you go to, I would consider this, I know more than a few guys who got ripped off at Tech college leaving tools over the weekends and absent days.

If you can afford it, buy the Snap On tools off the bat, if you can't don't sweat it. Most Snap On dealers have a 30 to 35 % markup if you buy after you get a job. I usually called my Snap On guy when I had some extra funds and haggled him down on price if I paid full amount in cash that day. This saved me 20 to 30% or better on big stuff. Helped him to move some product. Most dealers are happy to get immediate payment for tools rather than just putting it on the street, even if its a little lower profit %. Even dealers need to pay bills.

For sockets, especially impacts, I would buy absolutely nothing but Snap On, the quality is unmatched and well worth it. I don't like other brands because they cut the hexes too deep in their sockets, which allows a nut to slide up inside when your working "blind" reassembling. Snap On keeps the bolt or nut head right at the end of the sockets where they belong. Not something you'll think of unless you've been wrenching a while.

Wrenches were never a big thing to me, I liked the extra leverage that Snap On sets gave me, but the Craftsman wrenches worked for 90% of the jobs I did. ( I now have two to three sets of Craftsman wrenches, and at least a full set of Snap On, the Sears goes in my truck when I am on the road etc. ) You'll never have too many wrenches, so pick the Sears sets first, you can build on later with Snap On without regrets.

Screw Drivers and Ratchets in my box are all Snap On, I have abused them and never had a problem with warranty, you just need to wait a week for the Snap On guy to come back by. A Sears set is going to require you to go on a lunch break, or worse, after work to warranty it. I have a few Sears but only for a mobile kit.

I have a Macsimizer roll away, the biggest one made, nearly 8 ft long and a small Snap On Roll away for my trailer. Given the choice again, I would have bought a Snap On chest for both. I used to think of the box as nothing but a lock for my tools, which is essentially true, just a well organized lock. My mac box has needed work over the years for its locks, I had to pay for the parts a few times. Snap On boxes are covered for life, period, My smaller used Snap On rollaway has had numberous parts warranteed with no cost to me, its 15 years old. I bought my Macsimizer in 1997, it has cost me alot. Mac only warrantees for a few years at best if you yell enough.

Before you spend a heap of money on tools, get insurance, get them inventoried, and keep it current. I have over $70,000 in tools, one tool box drawer would set me back months to replace. If you have a video camera, make a thourough tape of the contents, review it and update every few months. You'll never have to fight an adjuster with that tape for replacements. Engrave Everything, EVERYTHING. Everything looks the same in a pawn shop after a thief sells your stuff.

Last thing to remember, Snap On is nearly everywhere in the nation, MAC, MATCO, CORNWELL, and SK might be at School, but you'll be looking hard to find them at a shop you're working at in some areas. I could usually find a MAC or Matco guy nearby, but I rarely if ever had to look for Snap On. Very few tool companies stand up to Snap On in the real world, they have the lead in the industry for a reason. I sold all my MAC stuff except my box a few years ago on Ebay and replaced it with Snappy because there was no Mac gu to deal with in town. Nothing sucks more than a handfull of busted sockets with no local place to warranty them.

Good luck with your career. I hope this gives you something to think about. If you can keep them from getting stolen or lost, tools will be with you a lifetime. Don't go cheap when you'll be using them every day, you'll regret it later.

 

[ndurbin]

When I started school 2 years ago I bought a Snap-on set of tools and boxes for right around $3500. That was with 40% off on all the tools and 60% off on the boxes. It was a pretty basic set of tools, standard wrenches upto 1 1/2" and 1/4", 3/8" , and 1/2" drive sets w/ standard sockets. Screwdrivers, hammers, chisels, and stuff like that. It was a very basic set to get you through school, no air tools or speciality tools. Since I bought that set I've added a meteric craftsman set 3/8" drive, a set of standard and metric gearwrenchs, a set of standard and metric nut drivers (really handy for removing/tighening clamps), and I also bought a 300 piece Craftsman tool set to carry in my truck and help when I need extra sockets or tools. I haven't bought air tools yet (as I'm not working in a dealership at the moment), but those are a must have. And I'll vouch for the Snap-on wrenches hurting your hands, but a pair of gloves takes care of that.



From what I noticed around school (we all had different tool sets) Snap-on and MAC were the best quality, S&K and the Matco's were right up there too. I liked the Craftsman boxes the best over any other, MAC's had to have been the worst. Craftsman tools would have been alright had they had a rep come around or something but if you broke something ya had to goto the store (which was 20 miles away). Only the MAC and Snap-on reps came out to the school, and you could set your watch by the MAC guy. The Snap-on rep was pathetic, came once every 2-3 weeks if we were lucky. But one thing you should look at once your out of school and looking at jobs is which reps come by the dealership with their trucks. If you have all Snap-on and theres only a Mac dealer your kinda SOL on getting replacement tools or getting the Snap-ons fixed.



I will never have enough tools.

Nathan

 

[JoshPeters]

I completely forgot about the box. Or the Mansion as a couple of guys at work call it. Get the biggist box they will allow. You WILL fill it. I prefer the Matco Box's over Snap-on. Snap-on has that slide grab thing to open the drawer I don't care for. You can remove them, but then there isn't a detent in the drawer to keep it closed. Matco, there is a slight detent at the closed position, the rest of the slide operation is smooth. I have a 1/4'' block under the front 2 wheels of my box for 2 reasons... the floor at work is not flat. I like to just give a drawer a little push and it'll close. My VERY heavy top drawer needs nothing more than a tap to close on it's own.



The biggist thing about a tool box is you. Find a color you REALLY like. Matco just came out with the Black box, and Iodized Red handles... . It's REALLY sharp. It's about feel. Go to a local shop and ask to talk to the techs. We've had MANY students come to our shop and ask about tools and box's. I always tell them to open the drawers. Grab the Snap-on and do the same. It's all what you like, your feel.



Josh

 

[NBowlin]

I would like to say thank you to all of you who have taken the time to speak your piece. Its appreciated. I am glad I asked. It sounds pretty straight forward on which tools to invest in that is one thing.



The other is where do you go to get specialized training? On lets say the electronics side of things? I think this little school I am wanting to go to will be a great bang for my buck, county helps out a lot, but I dont see it going too far in any given direction. I will only have used a tiny bit of the money i have coming to me for school. What do you all have to say on a more advanced style school that you would go to after you get out of a 2 year one? Or do you just go get a job and learn as you go from there on out?



Thanks again.

 

[JoshPeters]

I honestly thought UTI did a pretty good job of explaining the electronics. It sounds like you have already enrolled at a Tech School. You'll find books all over that will help you further understand electronics more. Alot of it turns into on the job training. I had a pretty good grasp on the electronics when I was at UTI. There is more that they may talk about, but don't have you do that you will learn on the job. Break out Box's (BOB's) are pretty normal. Learn how to read a wiring diagram! That is HUGE! Know exactly what car, year, options, etc you are dealing with. Don't guess, it WILL bite you.



If you understand how all the sensors work, what they tell the ECM and what the ECM's "reaction" is going to be... . you will be a step above your fellow students. That was the first thing I had to put to work. The O2 sensor is reading Full Rich, but the Mass Air sensor is reading... ... You get the idea! Alot of things can be diagnosed by seeing what the car sees. A part may not set a code, in that case the O2 sensor may set the code, but the Mass Air sensor is bad causing the ECM to richen up the mixture.



Josh

 

[RACE427]

Electronics Training

Most of the manufacturers of the Dealers you work for will give you some training. It is never enough as they only train for their specific product line. As far as training is concerned, you have to be aggressive with a "go to it" attitude!! You have to love to read technical information and enjoy studying/learning on your own.

Two great resources for Electronics on cars / trucks are these two firms;

www.Lindertech.com who is Jim Linder and www.AESwave.com or www.AES.com which is Jorge or Carlos Menchu, all great-super people to deal with!! They are the very best!!

Give their web sites a look-see, they have lots of tools, equipment and training books to get you on your way!!



I teach Hi-Tech Auto Shop and I love what I do, it is the most exciting thing going on with cars and trucks today other than electronic auto transmissions. Electronics are not going to go away, it is only going to get worse as the years creep on by!! E mail me if you have anymore questions.

Hope this helps!! Tony G

 

[RACE427]

Training

I forgot to mention... ... . most of the students I see turn me off when I speak or teach about electronics. They want no part of it as they are lost in an era which they only think they know about, that is the 1960s. Those days are gone and we will never see simple vehicles like that ever again. Just like the carburetor the 60s are BC... ... before Camaros!! LOL



The kids at my Vo Tech school and even in a College course I teach have no real desire to learn Automotive Electronics. Most dealerships have one, maybe two techs who specialize in this area. You can tell who he/she is as they are up on the latest technology and know how to use all of the Hi Tech tools. Most of them enjoy the challenges of diagnosing what is wrong with today's cars and trucks. Those who don't, just complain how the industry sucks!! Maybe it does, but I have been doing it for so long it is a way of life for me!! LOL



Learn Electronics and they will be asking you how to repair the tough ones!!

 

[DKarvwnaris]

The other is where do you go to get specialized training? On lets say the electronics side of things?



Snap On can help you alot with this if you get signed up for their field training. Especially if you decide to go with a scanner, more over the new Modus. It is a huge commitment though to a new mechanic. I have the tried and true 2500 Snappy scanner with domestic, asian, and German cartridges (VW). If your planning to get into diesels, try to get signed on with Detroit, CAT or CUMMINS for a factory training course directly. It means more to the good paying places like dealerships than any general tech school you can attend. You'll never regret Factory training. You'll need the basic electronics knowledge of course, but the factory courses will set you way above in specific areas.



What do you all have to say on a more advanced style school that you would go to after you get out of a 2 year one? Or do you just go get a job and learn as you go from there on out?



Sign up with a dealership, get a few months of on the job experience, talk to the older mechanics who are doing the troubleshooting and getting the ASE bonuses. After you get a feel for what is the majority repair and what pays the best, request for that training. Clean up and tear down is a part of the job, market yourself as needed, don't be above the entry positions, its shows you want to learn and are willing to make sacrifices to get there. Make it clear you want to be a career tech, not just temporary. Have the dealer get you into a few factory courses. Let them pay for your advanced training, it may require you stay on with them for a while after completing the training, but you'll be alot better off. You'll have certificates that will put you above the grease monkey who just dragged his knuckles through a community college course. Dealers are dying for competent techs, this is where the advantage is on your side. There is no long term goal at a privately owned shop, you're usually treated better, but the money will be the same with minimal increases this way. You'll see the payoff when you can get your tools and certificates and work for yourself as an independent small business owner. I set my own hours and choose the work I want nowadays. It keeps me busy in the winter when I am not runnig my construction crew or maintaining my own rigs



Thanks again.

Don't get yourself way over your head in debt right off, decide if you like your career move first. You'll never get what you paid for your tools back out of them if you sell them in frustration. The payoff in tools comes from the career and owning them outright. Financing is a dangerous thing to a student, if you're going to be paying more a month for your tools than a second car would cost you, think it over real hard.

One of the above posts mentioned getting a big box off the bat, don;'t do this unless you have your basic tools covered. Paying for empty drawers is silly if you can't finance filling them up as needed. A huge box is great, but a modest box to start out with will put you ahead of the game. Most tool dealers make their money on their boxes, they are full of profit for them. If you have bought your tools from that dealer, They will usually treat you good when you need more space. One of the reasons I stick to one brand and one dealer. Don't spread yourself out with multiple trucks,

Matco boxes are nice, Second only to Snap On, (Matco redesigned their boxes to compete with Snap On, impressive, but not quite there. ), they aren't worth much for trade in, Better than MAC boxes for sure. I paid less than half for my MAC's retail price, otherwise I would have a Snap On for my main box.

 

[MKoth]

I will throw my experiences in here, as I am fairly new to the professional automotive/diesel tech industry.



Tool Box: Matco is the only way to go, IMHO. They are built much heavier, have 6 casters standerd on their 3 and 4 bay boxes, and I like the detent system much more then the lock and roll system.



Ratchets: Snap-on has good ratchets, the S-K tuff ratchets are also very good. I have a mixed selection of both. I have had issues with the snap on ratches binding up, but they have always been warrented with no questions asked by the local rep. I think it is very important to have multiple similar ratchets, as it is very difficuly to get anything done if you 3/8 flex ratchet is broken.



Sockets: All of 3/8" and 1/2" sockets are SK, very good product, and a lot less money then Snap-on. My 1/4" and 3/4" stuff are all Grey Pneumatic, it is a overseas company, but they are they were the right price, and have a lifetime warrenty. My impact swivel sockets are all Snap-on, cause that was the truck that was there when I decided I needed a set. Matco has a stronger design, but may be harder to find a dealer to get them fixed. Chrome stuff is a mix of Snap-on, Craftsman, and Matco.



Wrenches: The Mac knuckel savers are great, they have just as much grip as the Snap-on flank drive, but wont damage the bolt or nut. The Matco wrenches are ok, but they use an odd system for grip, and will round off fastners or fittings made of soft metal, I am probly going to trade mine in on a set of Mac wrenches. Spend the money for a set of Snap-on flank drive ratchet wrenches, not the blue point ones. I have a set of stubby S-K wrenches, because they were a good deal, and so far have been very impressed with them. Its also impotnat to buy a couple sets of cheap wrenches, go to your local farm store and get the $19. 99 ones from china, they last a while, and you can bend and grind them all you want.



Air tools: IR all the way. The only good air tool Snap-on makes is an air chisel, their impacts make way too much noise, and dont get much done. Mac has the best air ratchets, they are compact , and have a completley sealed, slim profile head.



Pliers and such: Knipex and Vise Grip are all I have. Most of the stuff on the tool truck are just re-badged versions of these.



Electronics: I have a Fluke 87 series V It was a good chunk of money, but I use it everyday, and it has never let me down.



The rest of the odds and ends are up to you. Get a good flash light, a magnet or three, an inspection mirror, and lots of pics and files and pry bars andstuff.



I always wipe down all my tools and my box before I go home at night, I wax it once a month. Make sure that you keep your box dry when cleaning the floors, the chemicals used will take the paint right off the wheels and may even make the power part of your box rust.



Thats about all I can think of right now, hope this helps a little.

 

[JFinke]

Learn the electrical inside out and you will be fine. If you know how the electrical works in general you can figure out anybodys problem if you have the right manual. If you go to work at a dealership they will likely send you to a couple of one week schools in the first year to learn the specific manufacturers set of problems/fixes. Anybody can rebuild mechanical parts, but there are very few techs that are great at elctronics. AC work and electrical are mainly what I do as it's the cleanest work and pays the best. Jake

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I will throw my experiences in here, as I am fairly new to the professional automotive/diesel tech industry.



I have nearly all of my Original Snap On impacts, They have hardly, if ever failed. Unless your referring to 1 1/2" and up sockets, I would go Snap On, I've had the taiwan sets, they wear in months, not years.



Tool Box: Matco is the only way to go, IMHO. They are built much heavier, have 6 casters standerd on their 3 and 4 bay boxes, and I like the detent system much more then the lock and roll system.



I would be very hesistant of putting Matco first in toolboxes, they are nice but very easy to break into. If you lift up the pressboard top they have on them, you will see a small access panel on the top of the rollaways, it comes off and then you just lift the lock bar below it to release all the drawers, (30 seconds tops, 10 if you have done it before). It takes a lot more to get into a Snap On box, unless you're a dealer with a key. The lock mechanism is weighed and also has springs holding it in down so you have to keep holding it up to get each drawer open. The reality will be a bunch of thieves braking in the shop with a lift gated truck and stealing the entire thing. At least the meth addict on a bicycle will have trouble with getting into all your drawers at once with a Snappy



Air tools: IR all the way. The only good air tool Snap-on makes is an air chisel, their impacts make way too much noise, and dont get much done. Mac has the best air ratchets, they are compact , and have a completley sealed, slim profile head.



I agree with IR with the exception of the Air Chisel as you mentioned, but also air ratchets and air drills.

The 1/2" SnapOn drills are unmatched by anything else, the torqe will rip your wrist off. The SnapOn air ratchets are also hard to beat for 1/4" and 3/8". Most all of Mac's air tools are built by IR or someone else. Stanley (parent company of MAC), has destroyed alot of the MAC internal production lines lately. I used to love MAC, now I sway away from them. I have a MAC version of the IR 244 impact, its a good gun, bought it used at an estate sale, I'd rather have the IR badge that I can competitively shop for at regular stores

The rest I agree with for the most part.

 

[Andy Perreault]

Here's another idea for you in regards to rollaways: years ago when I bought my first rollaway (Craftsman black "Pro" chest, which I still have), I made my own drawer liners with inexpensive black automotive carpeting that I bought at an upholstry supply store. What's nice about the carpeting is that the tools leave an indentation in it, so I know where things go and what's missing. Also the tools don't move around when I move the tool chest. Better than the rubber liners IMO. When I bought my Snap-On rollaway, the first thing I did was buy the same black carpeting and cut it into drawer liners. I think chrome tools on black carpet in a red chest looks real sharp.

Andy

 

[SMorneau]

I would buy snap on tools but its just not that easy. If you can't get the guy stop by and sell you tools think how hard it will be to get him to stop by and replace a broken tool. I will stick with Craftsman for convenience. But I don't wrench for a living. Also I just can't bring myself to pay those prices, especially knowing they are giving steep discounts to others.



I won't buy Proto I had an impact socket break the first time I used it.

 

[RACE427]

Tool Box Theft

When I worked for a Dealer and we were broken into, they pryed every tool box open no matter what brand they were and cleaned out all of the tools. Friends have told me horror stories where the thevies would back a box truck up to the rolling gate doors and haul all of the Rolling Tool Chests away in one piece. You are really never, ever completely safe. Just make sure your employer provides an adequate tool insurance policy. Even then, you better know the depreciation rate. For me, my tools never depreciate as they always make money no matter how old or beat up they are!!!



I would make sure that my Chest is chained to the ground or at least to a Steel Beam in the shop.



Remember, once they get into one chest, they have almost all the neccessary pry bars, levers, hammers and chisels to get into everyone else's box!!! Sad fact of being in this business!!!



The low lifes are out there and they know tools are very easy to get rid of. E-bay is loaded with them!!! No one can tell me that all of those tools on that web site are legit!!!! I do not buy it!!!

 

[RACE427]

When they get caught !

When I used to work in the early 1970's on Jerome Ave. in the Bronx, there was an Olds Dealer down the Ave. from us. During lunch time a Junkie came in and tried to steal impact Guns. He was caught red handed by one of the mechanics. The crew proceeded to beat the living crap out of him and knocked him out cold. They threw him out on the street and then called the police saying the guy passed out from being drunk!!! Cops took him away and he was never seen stealing again!! Guess justice was served!!