Torn Frame 1999 Jayco 3610

[ramcam6]

I have a medium extended pinbox Leland AF 7910 CSA 13,000 GVWR and a CE Brand Gooseneck adapter 205B. All this is on a Jayco 5th wheel trailer 36' long. My problem is where the part that the pinbox is bolted to connects to the frame the metal is torn out. I am having it weld repaired and getting some reinforcement put on. Hopefully it won't tear out again. My question is has anyone experienced this problem? If so, what did you do? Jayco is paying for the repairs, but I'm discusted that the frame isn't thick enough to prevent tear out. I feel lucky that I spotted it before I lost the whole thing and killed someone. The safety chains would have remained along with the hitch and the whole trailer would have been gone. WOW!

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by ramcam6

I have a medium extended pinbox Leland AF 7910 CSA 13,000 GVWR and a CE Brand Gooseneck adapter 205B. All this is on a Jayco 5th wheel trailer 36' long. My problem is where the part that the pinbox is bolted to connects to the frame the metal is torn out. I am having it weld repaired and getting some reinforcement put on. Hopefully it won't tear out again. My question is has anyone experienced this problem? If so, what did you do? Jayco is paying for the repairs, but I'm discusted that the frame isn't thick enough to prevent tear out. I feel lucky that I spotted it before I lost the whole thing and killed someone. The safety chains would have remained along with the hitch and the whole trailer would have been gone. WOW!

First, you have a gooseneck adapter bolted to the 5ver's pin box. That significantly increases the torques applied to the 5ver's pin box/frame junction due to the longer lever arm of the gooseneck adapter. That's why you had the failure. The Jayco is designed as a 5th wheel, NOT a gooseneck. Compare the structures - 5th wheel trailers (regardless of brand) are NOT goosenecks - goosenecks have to use MUCH more steel in the crown of the trailer to handle the torques inherent in a gooseneck hitch arrangement. This is at least the third 5ver (the first Jayco) that I know of that has experienced this same failure caused by using these gooseneck adapters.



Second, I think it says a LOT for Jayco that they're paying for this repair even though (IMHO) the failure was clearly the result of an ill thought out modification.



If you must have a gooseneck hitch yet still tow a 5ver, I suggest you check out the B&W arrangement at http://www.turnoverball.com - it will safely tow your 5ver with the companion RV 5th wheel hitch yet can still handle gooseneck trailers as well. This is the RIGHT way to do it. Check my signature to see what I'm towing with this hitch design.



P. S. - RamCab6, please forgive my frustration. It's not directed at you. It's just that I've been warning people about these gooseneck adapters for years, and I'm more than a little tired of being told by cattleguard welders who have no mechanical engineering background that these failures will never happen.



Rusty

 

[ramcam6]

Thank You RustyJC

I really appreciate such a thorough and clear answer to my question. I can see what you mean. I will probably have to go to a 5er hitch instead of the Gooseneck adaption. What burns me the most is that the outfit that I bought the 5er from also sent the truck out and had the fold down Atwood 2 5/16 ball installed and supplied the medium extended pinbox and the CE 205B adapter. Seems to me they should have some responsibility as to whether this is a safe set-up, eh?



Thanks again Rusty.

 

[RustyJC]

RamCab6,



You're exactly right. I'd nail the people who sold you this kluge to the wall! They could have seriously injured you, your family, or my family had that pin box torn completely loose.



Good luck!



Rusty

 

[Barry]

Good catch Rusty! Glad you are on out team!

 

[MABurns]

I noticed you said the outfit that sold you the fifth wheel also sold you the GN adapter. Is this a Jayco dealer? My guess is not.



I don't think Jayco honored it... . but instead the person who sold it did. I would be willing to bet that if anybody did what you did with any brand new unit from any manufacturer, a warranty claim would be denied and not covered under warranty. JM2CW

 

[Shovelhead]

We need to save this thread for those who ask " Is it OK to let my family ride in my TT/ 5th wheel, etc. while traveling?"



Good catch.



Hope it all works out OK.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by ramcam6

What burns me the most is that the outfit that I bought the 5er from also sent the truck out and had the fold down Atwood 2 5/16 ball installed and supplied the medium extended pinbox and the CE 205B adapter.

Rob,



You need to check with Jayco about the Leland medium extended pinbox this dealer installed. My 3610 has a vertical (non-offset) pinbox, and because of the weight of the 5ver, I don't even think the extended pinbox was an option (although I could be wrong). I would certainly clarify this issue with Jayco's engineers as the offset pinbox will also increase the torque loading at the frame junction.



Rusty

 

[Barry]

I am delivering a HR Alumalite 5er today and installing a GN adapter for the customer. The unit is only 6,000# and has a verticle pin box. I think he will be OK.

 

[WRStrong]

Torque loads on 5th wheel hitches

Interesting thread.



I just raised the upper portion of my Reese 16K slider today to the top-most position. 5er wasn't quite level when coupled to the truck. I am a little concerned about increased torque due to the longer moment arm caused by using the top set of bolt holes. I am hoping that the system was engineered to handle the load + safety margin even at the top setting.



Our 5er weighs in at 9000 lbs soaking wet.



Anyone had any experience using a Reese hitch raised all the way up?



Thanks



WRS

 

[SHobbs]

WRS, are you talking about the saddle being at the highest point on the legs. If so that's where mine is and has been that way since installation and my 5er tips the scale at 12k empty. I have had no problems with mine this way.

 

[WRStrong]

WRS, are you talking about the saddle being at the highest point on the legs. If so that's where mine is and has been that way since installation and my 5er tips the scale at 12k empty. I have had no problems with mine this way.

Yes, I think that's a good description of the set up. Glad to hear that you haven't had any problems with yours. I suppose the manufacturer wouldn't drill the extra holes if they weren't intended to be used.



Thanks for the reply!



WRS

 

[RATTLINRAM]

Bookmarking this one

ramcam6,

I'm so glad that your situation turned out as good as it did. The damages and possible harm or deaths that could have happened from this would have been tragic. I have also tried to explain the issues concerning these GN adapters for 5ers, as a moderator over at the DTR website. In my opinion, these should be taken off the market and should never be promoted by places like Camping World or any other RV business. It's just not worth the risk when there are plenty of safe dual-purpose hitch systems on the market today.

Just my $. 02





Dennis

 

[JPudenz]

Gooseneck Adapter - Void warranty

Just an FYI;



I looked into doing this with my 39' fifth wheel toy hauler... I called the manufacturer before I bought the adapter. Forest River told me they would void the warranty on my trailer frame if I bolted the adapter on for the same reasons as talked about in this thread, too much stress on the pin box. Apparantly they have had issues with the pin box tearing apart in emergency stop situations!



I went with the B&W companion and Love it!



JJ

 

[CUMMINZ]

Different thoughts

Please check out this page, more ideas and thoughts on the safety of converting your ball to 5er.



http://www.gorowan.com/2004ram/pin_box/

 

[merryman]

ram cam6 described just what happened to my fiver when I used a goose neck adapter. It was working great and I loved it for about 3K miles; then we hit a particularly bounce section of highway and things got ugly in a hurry.

Those who say they have used the adapter without problems, just might want to add the word "yet" to that statement.

I was tempted to go after the people who sold me the adapter, but decided it would not be worth the trouble.



Vaughn