Torque converter or valve body?

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What is the best order for modifying the transmission after bombing? Valve body, pressure lock, lock switch, torque converter or different order? TST reccomends converter and/or manual lock switch for the daring. BD web site leans towards valve body first.

 

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How big a Bomb? For mild upgrades stock works pretty good, slightly more power or for towing, a Pressure Loc works well and it's all external. Big time power and you can use everything you mentioned. Your money, your choice. Careful driving helps too!

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Ron

'96 Club Cab 2500 4x4, 4:10LS, Camper/Tow package, Auto, BD Pressure Loc, Mystery Switch, TST 230/605, Cummins Chrome, Mag-Hytec rear and trans covers, Boost, Pyro and trans gauges, Optima Red Tops, All black. Tow 14k HitchHiker triple glide 5th Wheel. Also use 9. 5' Lance camper. NRA Life Member.

 

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I have the Banks Stinger plus kit (14cm turbo, exhuast, gauges, torque plate) and 215hp injectors. I am regularly loaded with 2 to 4,000 lbs. I get the slips pretty bad going up hill and hard acceleration getting on the highway. So what do ya think? Will the pressure lock and mystery switch help the most?

 

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Abomb,
with that type of upgrade and the fact you have some slippage already, you should think of getting a torque convertor as your first upgrade. That will transfer your power better and minimize the slipping. Then a Torqloc or Autoloc to control lockup.

Follow with a Pressureloc or Valvebody later to increase your pressures.

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Real BOMBers never get speeding tickets. . just a lot of warnings!

 

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TC first? I've read and heard about folks getting low stall TC's and not being happy. They usually say go get a custom TC instead of off the shelf. Would some one have an opinion on this matter? In the following thread, Johon_P and KOA installed 370 injectors to get smooth acceleration after installing a low stall TC. I like my 215 injectors just fine, but want to fix slippage. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum1/HTML/002533.html

 

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A-bomb:

I recently went through all this on
my 96' which just recently turned
over 100,000 miles. When the truck
had about 15,000 miles on it I had
the "Trans-Go" Shift Kit installed
in the truck. AFTER that I had Mark
Chapple at TST install the #6 cam plate
(250H. P. ). I had no problems with the
stock TC and valve body until I reached
about 98,000 miles. I regularly tow a
racing trailer (8,000-9,000lbs. ) all
over the Mid-Atlantic as well as a 20'
flatbed with a MF tractor(10,000lbs. )
and believe me I "roll" when I am
towing these trailers!

Anyway, as I said, at about 98,000
miles I noticed that the TC began to
"shudder" and slip when towing in the
Smoky Mountains (I-77, WV etc. 4-5%
grades)on hot, humid days. At that
point I knew I had to upgrade.

"Scheid Diesel" in Effingham, Ill.
did the transmission work for me. They
did an EXCELLENT JOB installing
a "Pro-Torque" TC and complete
"BD Valve Body" along with a "Mag
Hytec" Transmission Pan and updat-
ing those pesky transmission fluid lines.
Let me tell you my stock TC just
about had it! It was stained blue
from the excess heat and they felt
it would not have been long before
it failed! You can contact Rick or
Brian at their Effingham, Ill. store
@ 1-800-669-1934. They are really
great people to deal with!!

However, as you probably read in my
post "BD Pressure Loc" question this
new torque converter has a stall speed
of 1600 compared to 2000 for the stock
TC. I now have a "flat spot" or "2-3
second lag" when I accelerate from a
dead stop until the engine reaches
about 1300 RPM. It will then take
off hard and accelerate smoothly
to governor speed. Other TDR memebrs
have had the same problems with the
low stall converters (i. e. : KoaMan,
RobG, bigkavr). It seems that the
lower the stall speed, the worse it
is. As you also read, the 370 inj.
Koa Man installed completely solved
that problem. I am getting ready to
do the same thing.

Before doing anything, call around
to the various manafacturers and see
if you can't get them to "custom
build" you a TC like you want it
for what YOU are doing. Piers at
BD has done ALOT of work on this
and is very helpful(1-800-887-5030).
Also read the 12 Valve Post "Torque
Converter Choice. "

Sorry for such a long post, but I
wanted to explain my situation to
you. Hope this helps you! E-mail
me if you want to. (gray tank@msn.
com. ) Good luck!

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John_P.

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Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Pump Mods, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

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I feel the vendors that are selling TCs should inform the buyer what to expect with the L/S TC. All TST told me was that you cannot install this in a stock truck because it won't be able to pull it. I wanted to get more power for towing and was told that I needed to beef up the trans if I ordered the TST #5 plate. I was new to bombing diesels so I just ordered the plate, TC. shift kit and gauges all at the same time. If I knew in Feb. 2000 what I know now, I would have gotten a TC with a stall of around 1800. That would probably have been fine running the stock injectors. But as it is now, I am very happy with the performance of the truck and TC since the installation of the 370s. The 370s have made it possible to have instant take offs, even from a standing start up a hill at 13000 lbs. GCVW. I don't know what the hp increase is or the 0-60 or 1/4 mi time, but for real world every day driving performance, I am extremely happy I got the 370s and wish I had done it sooner.

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1996 3500 Clubcab SLT, auto, 4. 10 limited-slip, TST #5, 370s, AFC spring kit, Psycotty, Dunrite converter, Trans-Go, Straight pipe, DiPricol EGT, boost & trans temp. gauges, 9 ft. aluminum flatbed and tool boxes with Venco dump. Custom front bumper, Hadley air horn.

 

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Koa Man, What was your milage before and after the 370s? How much were they and where did you get them? Also, what tire size are you running?

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'94 3500 4x4, 201,000 miles, Auto w/shift kit (currently under remodification), 3. 54 Gears, TST #5 plate, 235-85-16s, Rancho 9000s w/remote, Isspro gauges inplace of cupholder & Amsoil Bumper to Bumper. NRA member.

[This message has been edited by Extreme1 (edited 09-09-2000). ]

 

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I don't know what my mileage is since I started the mods. I know I was getting between 14 to 16. 7 mpg stock. My mileage probably went down the toilet because:
1. I converted to a flatbed, headboard 2 ft. above the cab. Tremendous wind resistance.
2. I am almost always running at 12000-16000 lbs. GCVW.
I also now fill up from a 600 gal. fuel tank that has no meter on it, just an automatic shut off valve at the nozzle. (Fuel is much cheaper that way, if you know what I mean. )
I got the 370s from Joe D, it was approx. $470. I am running stock tire size, about 30. 5 inch diameter, but plan to go to 32 inchers on the next tire change.

 

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Jhon-P,

Great post. Thanks for the info. I was camping and towing this weekend. (2,000 lb camper and 2,000 lb trailer with dirt bikes) Definately need the transmission work done. I will give Piers a call, as 1800 rpm TC stall sounds great, but don't know about the rest.

 

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Koa Man:

I agree with you that the mana-
facturers of these "low stall"
torque converters should be
more specific about their "chara-
cteristics. " I will be able to let
you know about the H. P. increases
with the 370's shortly. I had my
truck "dynoed" after the install
of the 280 plate and the TC and
BD Valve Body. I intend to do it
again after the 370's and "pump
mods" are done. That should give
you (and me) an idea of what is
gained by those modifications. Our
trucks are very similar except for
the rear end gear ratio.

Stay tuned and I will let you know.
Again, my sincere thanks to you
for your input on this subject!
You have not only helped me but
A-Bomb and others!

Take care.
----------
John_P.

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Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Pump Mods, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

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Koa, also John-P,

Koa I noticed you have the Pscotty air intake installed. Does it really help the egt's? Also how bad do the 370 injectors smoke and do you have to worry about emissions testing where you live? Also, also I noticed that neither of you are using 16cm turbo's on your reply data. Is this the case?

I am asking all these questions because I am thinking about a rebomb with a 16cm turbo, bigger fuel plate (5?), Pscotty,and 4" exhuast, but need to pass emissions. My current mods include Banks Stinger plus (ottomind torque plate - about a number 7 in TST lingo, 14cm turbo, 3 1//2" ex), AFC spring kit, 215 injectors. I also have a 3. 54 rear end.

I need to match my transmission to the power while passing emissions. (of course I can always de-tune to pass emissions, as long as I dont get a black smoke ticket).

I would appreciate the input.

 

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Right now there is no emissions test done here. Trade winds blow everything out to the ocean, one benefit of being the most isolated land mass in the world. There is an excessive smoke law here, but the only ones I know that have gotten tickets are gassers that should have had a ring and valve job 100,000 miles ago. I can't say if the TST #5 plate and 370s would pass the E-test. Only the #8 plate is certified for highway use. The 370s smoke about twice as much as the stock 180s, but with the stock injectors I could dial out almost all smoke with the star wheel. Only thing was no power at low rpm, so I had the star wheel backed off with almost no spring pressure. With the 370s and AFC spring, I have the star wheel tightened up about 1/2 way of its travel and still have instant take offs. If you lightly roll on the trottle with no load, smoke is minimal. With a GCVW of 13000, smoke is more than I would like taking off uphill, but not like pictures of the DD3s I have seen. Still, not any worse than the city buses. Loaded and level takeoffs, smoke is very acceptable. Your smoke level would also be less than mine if you went with a higher stall speed than I have. (Mine said 1425 stall on the box) The Psycotty definitely lowered EGTs by 100-150 degrees. A hill that I could not climb in O/D before the Psycotty because of EGTs, I can now climb it in O/D. It was a worthwhile install for me, although a few have complained about excessive noise, it was not bothersome to me and now I don't even notice it. I am still running the 12cm housing, but thinking about going to the 16. I still have the 3 inch exhaust but straight pipe. Reason I did not go to the 4 inch yet is because a well known 12V guru said 4 inch did not lower EGTs in his tests but a bigger housing will and unless you go to the HX40, the 4 incher does not have much benefit.

 

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KOA,
Thanks for reply.

I may just try the #5 plate and Pscotty, then do the transmission from there. It is hard to get a hold of Scott1 for air filter information. Did the Pscotty kit come with a 4. 5" hole saw? It looks pretty easy to install other than cutting the hole.

 

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A-bomb:

I haven't installed the 370's yet.
Should have them in by next week.
Like "Koa Man" I am still running
the stock 12cm housing but like
"Koa Man" I may go up to a 14cm
housing. I drove a 95' Ram at the
Nevada TDR Rally a couple of years
ago heavily "bombed" (300+ H. P. )
which had a 16cm housing. I did
not like the way it took off. It
felt like "turbo lag" to me, but
it could have been something else.
It was similar to what Koa Man and
I described with our trannys but
a little worse. Again, it could be
attributed to the pump timing, fuel
flow or maybe an air restriction, I
don't know.

Anyway, if you go back into the 12
Valve Archives there is a thread
about this where Joe Donnelly and
Ted Jannetty really discuss this
issue. I can't remember the title
of it. How about you Koa???

A-bomb, I will definitely let you
and Koa Man know how all this works
out for me. I'm sure it will help
my truck alot!



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Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Pump Mods, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

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A-bomb:

I haven't installed the 370's yet.
Should have them in by next week.
Like "Koa Man" I am still running
the stock 12cm housing but like
"Koa Man" I may go up to a 14cm
housing. I drove a 95' Ram at the
Nevada TDR Rally a couple of years
ago heavily "bombed" (300+ H. P. )
which had a 16cm housing. I did
not like the way it took off. It
felt like "turbo lag" to me, but
it could have been something else.
It was similar to what Koa Man and
I described with our trannys but
a little worse. Again, it could be
attributed to the pump timing, fuel
flow or maybe an air restriction, I
don't know.

Anyway, if you go back into the 12
Valve Archives there is a thread
about this where Joe Donnelly and
Ted Jannetty really discuss this
issue of the turbocharger housing
size. I can't remember the title
of it. How about you Koa???

A-bomb, I will definitely let you
and Koa Man know how all this works
out for me. I'm sure it will help
my truck alot!



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Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Pump Mods, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

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A-bomb:

Sorry about that "double" reply. I
must have hit the enter button one
too many times.

 

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A-Bomb,
The Psycotty does not come with the hole saw, but a couple of members are passing theirs around. I borrowed the saw from Big E and then sent it off to TXRam. Don't know who has it now but you could post a request. It was not hard to cut the hole and the install is very easy. Took me less than an hour to get tools, install and put away tools.

John P,
You can delete your duplicate post. I have done that before. Let me know how your 370s work out, I know they will make a BIG difference. Thanks for your response on the 16cm housing. I may just stick with the 12 now. I really don't need to go up a 6% grade at 13000 GCVW more than 55 mph anyway. (That's my limit due to EGTs)

 

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Koa Man,

I'm running a #4 plate (270) in my '95 with a 12cm turbo. The EGT would only allow full throttle for a couple of seconds untill we moved the plate back . 040. I might have to back off a little at the top of a long hill now, but moving the plate made a huge diff.

I was going to a larger turbo before, but now I can live with the 12.

Duke

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95 2500,std cab,4x4,auto by Dunrite,TST #4,AFC spring kit,Pier's gov spring kit, timing @ 15*, 215 injectors, Walker muff, 3. 54,Diprocol gauges in cupholder slot, K&N,Optima reds, Valentine One radar deflector,Diamond utility bed, custom 52 gal aux tank under bed.

 

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Thanks for all information on transmission's. I also wrote Dr. Donnley. He is very good at replying, and is of course the shama of information.

I ordered the Pscotty yesterday from DD. I feel lucky. They are supposed to arrive to DD on Friday. They are mailing it to me next week. I will post for hole saw. I wonder if the teeth are dull by now?

Also, I was thinking on looking for a junkyard Auto transmission to take apart and play with. Anyone know how much one should cost?



[This message has been edited by A-bomb (edited 09-12-2000). ]