Torque Converter Percent?

[Bud Fox]

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[GLASMITHS]

Thought I had a DTT

DANG IT, there for a short hour I thought I had a DTT t/c!!



However, I'm going to have one before the month is out:





Now, Someone tell me about the DTT Smart Controller.

I want to get all this done together, and I need the infor soon.



Why don't we let Bill K. 's time at BD just die? I know a guy that was a pimp, but is now a preacher If it is not relavant, then pm him-----------------------------------------

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by ronsram1999





I feel this discussion is headed in the wrong direction so I will try and keep this as professional as posible.



Ron

Keeping your posts as civil and polite as possible is encouraged.



This little exchange is quite enlightening about how word of mouth can inadvertently spread information that's not actually true. I'm sure your comments were intended to be as truthful as possible, and done in good faith, but as you can see, things weren't quite as you had thought. It happens to all of us. I don't know where your information came from, but I'll probably guess that person was in no way intending to misprepresent things, either. While Bill K worked for BD for some time, he chose to be on his own, and probably wishes to stand on his own merit, rather than being associated with the products of other people in other places.



It's also quite instructive about why we ask everyone to try thier best to diffuse commentary that might be inflamatory to some and totally benign to others. If you don't escalate it, everyone's dignity is maintained, especially your own...



Thanks guys.



Mark

 

[fortunate1]

... "Believe half of what you see, and nothing that you hear"...

Creedence Clearwater Revival - "I heard it through the grapevine"

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Ramboy

Contact Bill K and he can tell you exactly what you need. I think he recommends 89% for light to moderate towing and 91% for heavy towing. I tow an 18K trailer and have a 91% that I could not be happier with.

An explanation of what the % ratings mean as it relates to the fluid coupling part of the torque converter, in terms that that the average joe can grasp would be really appreciated - that is, if it can be done. How these numbers are derived may be confidential, or it simply may be beyond the comprehension of a non-techie...



But if it's possible, I would like to understand it. I've seen a large number of questions about it, and certainly have some of my own.

 

[Strick-9]

I don't understand what all the harsh words are about.



Bill worked at BD. That doesn't mean he designed every product they sold while he was there. If you've been on the boards long enough, you already know this, but I'm going to cite an example.



Bill helped design the pressure lock while he was there. It was designed to work WITH the higher pressures of an updated valvebody. With your foot OFF the throttle using an exhaust brake it increases line pressure. Good idea. But then some marketing wizard uses it to sell stand alone units. On a stock valvebody, it doesn't add any more pressure than when you are pulling with your foot to the floor. This good device got marketed as a cheap add on to "increase line pressure" and "prevent TC slipping. " Bill is very angry about how the product got marketed because his name was attached to that product. Surely, you can understand both sides. BD isn't lying when they say it increases pressure. It does under certain circumstances, but at the same time it isn't being completely honest and helpful to the customer.



Several issues such as that one came up between Bill and BD while he worked there. You can search through the archives and find most of it.



Dishonest people really get his blood boiling. And that's really what he's always getting in trouble for. Ironic isn't it.



Fluid coupling ratings. There are so many ways to test, and you get so many different numbers with the same converter that it's really a useless comparison. Some companies measure engine RPM versus output shaft speed in 3rd gear to get the ratio. Some companies measure the difference in RPM between lockup and fluid coupling.



The problem is the torque load on the converter dictates the percentage. If you took the same converter and placed it in three different vehicles, you would get three differenct percentages. Until we get some standardized TC testing procedures, I wouldn't get too worked up about what percentage converter you think you have. For now, it's just a marketing number.



-Chris

 

[pwr2tow]

Power Wagon,



I had no intent that that statement was going to take off the way it did, In all honesty I beleaved Bill did work for BD in 1999 and that is why I told Glasmiths that Bill should know the answer to his question. Maybe Bill will respond to my questions and this can be layed to rest once and for all.



Point well taken, that is the reason I asked the questions of Bill, and like I stated, if I am wrong I will appologize. If I know not what the answers are, how can I base my next reply on or any other information on.



I do not like to argue, but at the same time I will not sit idley by when someone calls me a liar. If I have to eat crow so be it we will all learn or I will learn to keep my fingers still.



Ron

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Ron,



No one need to eat crow here. If as you say it was an assumption you made then you obviously were speaking from opinion not fact.



1) Yes i did work for BD for about a year and a half

2) No I did not build tc's for them

3) No i did not design converters for them



They were selling milled stators before i went to work there, they were selling milled stator tc's after left there.



As for what you can tell those that contact you privately, i will give you the same advice i tell my customers. Be guided by your concience. I would never presume to tell you or anyone what they can or cannot say.



If i appeared unduly harsh i apologize, i thought you were speaking as you were told as so many others have been told exactly that.



Ron, I am like everybody else , my name is all i have, its what i came in this world with and all i will leave this world with.

 

[Reddog1]

Like many, I am a proud, opinionated and vocal person. I am comfortable with that and with others with those traits.



I sometimes get in trouble by not preceding my comments with something like “It is my understanding…. ”.



It is not my intent to offend anyone with this post, just sharing a personal experience.





Wayne

 

[pwr2tow]

Bill Kondolay,



Thanks for the diplomatic response, it's alot better for everyone envolved if we keep this from becomeing a mad dog fight.



When I start something, right or wrong, I have an inner drive in me to see it through to the end, so please bare with me.



Just to keep me from sticking my foot in my mouth in the future I want to be certain about the information. I don't want to leave questions where someone could read between the lines, on your behalf or mine.



1. Did BD use a TC, while you worked for them (or under contract with BD or Brian Roth), that you had designed before you went to work for them.



2. Did you build a TC design before working for BD (or under contract with BD or Brian Roth) that BD sold or sells under their name.



3. Did you have anything to do with the TC's that BD used or uses, other than sell them for BD.



4. If answers to number 1-3 are no, could you give an explaination of what you did do for BD, in reference to the TC.



Everyone, please do not add your opinion to these questions except for Bill, after all, it is him and I that need to come to terms with each other.



I know some DTT supporters are probably thinking I am badgering Bill, but like I said earlier, getting the correct facts is the only way we can lay this to rest.



Ron

 

[pwr2tow]

I would like to add to strick-9 comment that, no the pressure lock does not add anymore pressure to the transmission other than stock pressures. What it does do is put the pressures at full pressure even when the throttle is at half position to help keep the Torque Converter from slipping.



In a stock transmission the pressures are regulated by the throttle placement. Which means the more you push down on the throttle the more pressure in the transmission to keep the transmission from slipping. When a person adds engine horse power enhancements they do not need to keep there foot in the throttle more because of the added horse power so the line pressures are not up to where they should be, with the pressure lock installed it increases the stock pressures to the upper limits to keep the transmission from slipping.



The pressure lock is not marketed as a cure for high or extreme horse power but under mild horse power and mild horse power for towing it can prove to add alot to the life of a transmission. I do not think BD would try and sell the pressure lock for anything other than what it was designed for, at least when I had my aftermarket parts installed we went through what I was going to use the upgrades for and what would work and what would not, simular to the same questions any reputable company should ask.

Now there are always variables to this and I would dare venture a good educated guess that every company has experience a bad company rep or someone in too much of a hurry to ask all the questions all the time. For that purpose that is what these threads are all about, so everyone can ask the right questions and be informed of what should and should not be.



Hope I didn't confuss anyone, If I did please let me know and I will try and explain it a little better.



Ron

 

[Bob Wagner]

RON????????

Are you losing your mind?

 

[pwr2tow]

Hi Bob,

:{



Ron

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Ron,



These are very strange questions for a general consumer to be posing. . I will be very frank with you, it really is none of your business.



Just for the record, i was under no contract. I would never sign my livelyhood away to anybody. As a transmission rebuilder of my caliber is not a requirement of employment.

 

[danandamy]

What was this thread about again?



I think Bill answered your questions upfront enough now it looks like you're just trying to bait him into a squabble on the boards. I vote for let's move on or get back to the original topic of the thread.



dan

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

ronsram,



unless I'm mistaken I think Bill has answered your questions.....



Bill. .

1) Yes i did work for BD for about a year and a half

2) No I did not build tc's for them

3) No i did not design converters for them



. . They were selling milled stators before i went to work there, they were selling milled stator tc's after left there. ... ... ... .



As to the second set of questions you asked with the werefore's and wereafter's, I read Bill's answers as applicable there too.

Now I've generally just kept my opinion to myself and tried to keep an open mind in all of this but I must admit that I haven't learned diddley squat here.

It is my personal opinion that your second set of questions is designed not so much to ellicit factual information to pass along to an inquiring friend, associate or customer but rather to provide Mr. Kondolay an opportunity to say something, anything, that can be thrown back in his face with the attendant accusation of missrepresentation.

This was the first gut reaction I had relating to your inquiries, rightly or wrongly.



From PW's post on page 2...



>This means you may not imply or directly state that another vendor is deliberately lying to the public or has thier business based on unethical conduct. It means you may not, for instance, say that because Company X doesn't reveal every detail of thier products in a public forum, including pictures and engineering data... ...



I'm left feeling that the whole purpose of your rather personal questions regarding his 'past life' as it were, rather pointless unless your intending the above. .



All I really want here is to learn more about the whole product line and issues surrounding it. Not he said, he said...



I was told personally by Mr. K. quite some time ago that his reasons for leaving his previous employment were exactly as he has stated here, albeit with a touch more detail. That jived with information/comments from other individuals which I am certain you would have no reason to question either. In essence, this has remained consistent throughout the TC/VB/Trans. threads and Mr. K's position.

To me the single most important issue is this,... is he producing one of, if not the finest product available for our applications, with the most upfront disclosure of pro's and con's.

Learning is why I'm on this site, how bout the rest of us??

Ron, you have my personal word that I am NOT Pi$$ing in your direction. I think this boils down to who's in the top 3 to be honest.

JMO...



edit: ya, what danandme said. . and... I believe that the Vendors guidelines apply in fact as well as in spirit to all of us, myself included.



Bob.

 

[SlyBones]

Ron,



You need to explain that PressureLoc stuff better to me. Here is what I recall...



I thought a pressureloc was designed to work in conjunction with an exhaust brake and an autoloc to provide added line pressure when the throttle is lifted and the exhaust brake it applied. During this period the autoloc is holding the lockup clutch engaged. However a stock transmissions line pressure is too low with the throttle lifted. So the pressureloc basically fakes the transmission into thinking your foot is not the throttle so it will kick the line pressure back up.



I thought that when you get back on the throttle the pressureloc disengages and normal line pressure controlled by throttle position resumes. -- I did not think the pressureloc was ON all the time.



An aftermarket valve body is generally enough line pressure that a pressureloc is not needed with an exhaust brake.



I didnt see where you mentioned exhaust brakes or VB's in your comments. Assuming I am correct here, I dont see what HP has to do with it. A pressureloc with a ebrake on a stock transmission is probably a good thing. A pressureloc with an aftermarket VB is probably not necessary. A pressureloc w/o a ebrake and lockup controller is not doing anything. -- If I am wrong here, please explain in more details.

 

[fest3er]

Bill, thank you for taking a deep breath and softening your previous ... indignant response. That's really all we readers want of all posters.



Ron, I think I know what you are trying to ask of Bill, but you may be appearing as somewhat negatively aggressive. Would you consider re-reading his responses and posing new questions? Granted, Bill did not directly and explicitly answer your questions, but if you re-read his response, you may that Bill answered your questions.



There seems to be some mis-comprehension and mis-communication here. One party has tried to correct his over-reaciton. The other party needs to so do as wel.



We should attempt to moderate ourselves before the moderators must step in and do it for us.



Fest3er

 

[Lsfarm]

Back to Percents??

First: Fest3er I agree with you that Bill is to be commended for NOT taking the [personal,and potentially argumentative] bait. His response was what all readers want to see [except for the ones stirring the pot].



So, back to TC percentages. I guess the best way that the original question can be answered is to give a few examples. These #'s are from reading various posts, and my own observations with my truck.



When the trans TC shifted into lockup with the stock TC, I saw around 300-400 rpm drop. This varied some depending on how much power I was applying at the time of the shift. I'm going to call the stock TC 65%



With the DTT 89% TC, when lockup occures, I see about 100-125 rpm drop [about one marking on our tachs] This is with light load, such as steady 70 mph speed, level ground. Most of the time I don't even notice the lockup.



I've read other posts from owners of 91% TC's state a drop of 75-100 rpm. I don't remember who or what post.



And I'm curious if the owner of a 93% TC could post what their truck shows when lockup occurs under light load [lets say 70 mph steady, level ground]??



If the power applied at the time of the shift to lockup is similar, the amount of rpm drop will show just how much slippage the TC was allowing.



This should help explain what the percentages mean to us, the consumer.



I hope this helps answer the original question.



Greg L

 

[Strick-9]

Under those conditions, my 89% is barely noticeable going into lockup. Steady throttle cruising (no load) the needle moves about the width of the needle if that.



It would be hard to mimic the load differences from truck to truck, but we can try. There is my data.



Under slight acceleration there is more of a drop and under WOT there is even more drop. Another factor is the RPM. The higher the RPM the less drop you will see. Maybe we could all run this test at 2500 rpm, 3rd gear, steady cruise and note the difference.



I'll do that today and get back.

-Chris