Torque Wrench

[Dreher]

I've always thought that torque specs were for lightly-oiled fasteners unless specified otherwise and the torque should be decreased if another lube was used. Anyway, here's what the Pocket Ref says regarding lube and torque for a 5/16-18 bolt:



Lube-----------------------Torque, Ft/lbs.



No lube, steel----------------------------29

Plated & cleaned------------------------19 (34%)

SAE 20 oil---------------------------------18 (38%)

SAE 40 oil---------------------------------17 (41%)

Plated & SAE 30-------------------------16 (45%)

White grease----------------------------16 (45%)

Dry moly film-----------------------------14 (52%)

Graphite & oil ---------------------------13 (55%)



Bob

 

[rweis]

BUT, still NO anti seize or anything on the banjo's right?, to maintain totally clean environment, and not a hot (temp) mechanical connection.



Very surprised at the variances in the torque numbers with various lubs. Is this table extrapolatable to other torques?, ie torque should be #35 means #35 lubed with something like anti-seize, right?, NOT dry.



Where do you get anti-sieze?, NAPA / major auto parts stores?, and is one type / brand (I hesitate to put brand in there hoping no brand wars) more optimal than another? Generally go with high temp so can use the same all the time, or can you use one all the time?



You guys have increadiable info for us newbies, thanks



Bob Weis

 

[Dreher]

That chart didn't come out exactly like I typed it but you get the idea.



Pocket Ref says "Use the above lubrication percentages to calculate the approximate decrease in torque rating for other bolt sizes". You should be able to decrease the torque by the percentage in the chart (depending on the lube) for other bolt sizes and be in the ballpark.



I've heard a rule of thumb is torque to 2/3 - 3/4 of the specified torque if you are using anti-seize. There are other members, far more knowledgeable on this than I, that may have more accurate info.



You should be able to get anti-seize at any parts store. I bought my last bottle at Ace Hardware.



Bob

 

[Reddog1]

rweis - Depends what you are screwing the banjo bolt into. Steel to steel not real critical.



Anti-sieze is available almost anywhere they sell a nut or bolt. Some times refered to as Never-sieze, etc. Available in tubes, spray cans (great for gaskets) and cans with brush applicator. I have never been concerned about brand name.





Dreher - great post.





Come on guys. Oldies and Newbies, many of you are holding out. Give us what you got, then we will sort it out. Get your thoughts out there.





Wayne

 

[illflem]

I prefer the types of anti-seize made with ground up copper or lead and avoid the type made with aluminum. As I explained before, it's too messy. Brand doesn't matter. A real money saver I've found is to use it on the threads of the heat elements in an electric hot water heater when it's first installed. I've had non anti-seized elements that I couldn't remove with a 12' cheater bar, the whole hot water heater was trashed because of a $8 element.

 

[Extreme1]

Copper based anti-sieze is the type to get (like Illflem said), the silver aluminum crap is hard to get off your hands (also stated above). But the interesting thing is that the aluminum anti-sieze itself will corrode (cathode/anode) and sieze the fastener if conditions are right. (Engineering classes applied to the real world for one fleeting moment).



I only use anti-sieze for pin-in-hole type assemblies. NEVER use anti-sieze on a tapered shaft assembly (can't get apart) and the torque should be reduced substantially to get the right preload on the fastener, it's too slippery. I usually use oil that I salvage from the bottom of oil containers...



As for tools... (I'll try to be brief)



I'm not slaming anyone that owns any brands of tools, just relating my 25 years of experience of working on vehicles.



Comparing a Craftsman to a Snap-On (or Mac or Matco) is like comparing your Cummins powered truck to a Tundra. Just because it says it will do the job doesn't mean it will do it well. I have about 90% Mac, Snap-On and Matco tools. In the last 25 years, I have broken (1) Snap-On crowfoot wrench and (1) 24" Mac breaker bar. Of the few Craftsman tools I have, I have broken almost all if not all of them at least once (a few 8 times or more). I currently have a torx socket set that is useless because they almost always break. I will be buying a Snap-On set for the upcoming racing season.



Ironically, Craftsman does make a few good quality tools. Their tap and die sets are really good and are all you need for any home shop. Be sure and get "High speed steel" when you buy a tap and die set and the same goes for drill bits!



As for torque wrenches, beam type wrenches don't need recalibration and are highly accurate as well as cheap. (Another good tool found at Sears. )



Clicker types (I have a Snap-On that goes up to 200 ft-lbs) should be recalibrated periodically and should always be stored with the spring tension removed.



A 3/8 drive beam type torque wrench from Sears and a good name brand clicker type with an upper range of 250 ft-lbs will get just about any fastener you are likely to come across (except for the pinion nut on a Dana 80).



Aren't you glad I was brief?

 

[rweis]

For others looking for a torque wrench, I went to EBay to look. There is a WIDE range in all stages of use. New, to fairly used. Virtually all brands discussed so far. Very interesting conflaguration the EBay system.

 

[Paychk]

Here is some of my experience with "click" style torque wrenches:



I was responsible for the mobility tools we used at one Air Base. These tools were never used just stored ready for war. We had to calibrate all torque wrenches every 18 months. Five or six times I had wrenches fail the 2nd or 3rd calibration cycle. These wrenches were never used and they were all brand new. To break this cycle of waste we eventually settled on Snap-on, as they were they only place that would stand behind the torque wrenches. If they failed, the wrench was sent out and rebuilt, I think we paid $35. All the failures were to "non-linearity" IE one twist of the handle would get you 5 Ft-Pd's, the next twist ten. Always remember to sent the wrench to lowest marked setting and before use click it five to ten times before use to distribute the lube inside it.

 

[nickleinonen]

the copper based anti seze is good stuff, and best on most applications, expect is you are using it on a wheel hub that will have an aluminum wheel mounted to it. then it is time to use the aluminum based anti seze. the copper based stuff will corrode the wheel making it look ugly. the aluminum stuff will not. if my memory is correct, the aluminum anti seze was developed just because of aluminum wheels on big rigs.



anyone here ever put antiseze on sparkplugs threads?

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by nickleinonen





anyone here ever put antiseze on sparkplugs threads?

Always. Honda even says to use it their owners manuals.

 

[Shovelhead]

Always... . As a mechanic had way too many plugs pull threads 'cuz the last person didn't use anti-sieze, especially in aluminum heads.

 

[rjones]

Originally posted by Briar Hopper

I won't go with less than Snap-On quality when it comes to torque wrenches, heard too many horror stories from all the "old hands" and experienced mechanics. $120 - $165 is not at all a bad price for peace of mind.

Especially if I'm working on, and responsible for, other people's vehicles.

There are other good brands out there. This was the easiest one for me to get.

I have nothing but Snap-On when it comes to torque wrenches also... . A bit pricy but worth it...

 

[rweis]

Ok, I'm in EBay getting a Snap-On at a reasonable (whatever that means, lol) price. That takes care of the 5-75 ft pound. Understanding the Snap On criteria of 20% of the high range to the high range accuracy, it would seem (and remember my nebie status) that the next torque wrench would be QJR 3200C 50 - 250 fp and that would take care of the high end range easily. However, when it seems obvious to me, then I often have left something out.



Now the reason for the TW in the first place is to get the right torque on ...



Found the copper high temp (2000 F) anti seize for the "pin and hole" applications. Still not sure what to do about the tapered (NPT) applications like the pyro in the manifold as far as thread sealer / lube. I talked to the maint guy where I work and he says quite logically the you do not want the copper anti seize because you want the taper of the threads to seat firmly and stay put. He mentioned a pipe sealer that they use on steam pipes (ie high temp (what he had at the shop (#5) was 400 F, 2600psi, not high temp enough for the manifold though)) but he thought it was made for higher temp applications.



I'm trying to pick the minute details of information so I "get it right". Sometimes the tiny details are the hardest to figure out.



Thanks for the help.



Without you guys helping guide, I would have made a mess



Again THANKS

 

[barryg41]

Where I work at, we don’t use torque wrenches on our compressors or extruders. At least not on the bigger bolts. We stretch the bolts with tensioners. Over 13000 hydraulic pounds of pressure. The bolts are Teflon coated and do not use any lubrication. The compressors have to hold together at 41000 lbs of pressure. The screw pumps 65000 lbs of plastic an hour. We also stand back when we pressure up the tensioners.



Does anyone know how to convert hyd to ft lbs?

 

[Reddog1]

rweis - The use of anti seize on tapered (NPT) applications like the pyro in the manifold could probably start a war. If I remember correctly, pipe threads only have something like 90% contact. It has to do with the thread crown and root. It is almost a must to use some sort of sealant on pipe threads, to prevent leakage. It you consider the pyro in the manifold, which is more important to you, a miniscule leak or the ability to remove the pyro in the future?



For pipe threads, maybe someone could provide details. I have been away from it for a while.



I agree with Extreme1's take on tapered shafts. I am not aware of any tapered shaft that wants to be lubed during assembly. Through use, any lubricant will squeeze out, resulting in a loose fit.



Extreme1's comments on beam type wrenches should not be ignored. They are usually simple, take a beating and keep on working.





Wayne

 

[illflem]

rweis, anti-seize is the sealant of choice on the pyro.

I use anti-seize on high pressure tapered hydraulic fittings. Only time I've ever had a leak problem was before I started using it. This includes trying some very expendsive purple Loc-Tite made for hydraulic fittings.

 

[Extreme1]

Originally posted by illflem

rweis, anti-seize is the sealant of choice on the pyro.

Bingo!



My tapered shaft comments were aimed at tie rod type assemblies, learn't that one the dumb way...

 

[illflem]

OK now I get it. Those type of tapered connections should be shiny clean.

 

[Reddog1]

Isn’t it amazing what we can learn if we keep a stiff upper lip, discuss and debate and not cry and pout?



My anti-seize is better that your anti-seize .



I am re-learning and learning alot Oo. . Thanks guys.



rweis - look what you started. And you only had a torque wrench question.





Wayne

 

[rweis]

I am having a problem finding the needle valve that will fit a 1/8" pipe thread. I have looked in Home Depot, Lowes, ACE hardware, local plumbing shops, other hardware stores, auto parts stores. Found all kinds of 1/8" elbows, couplings, male/male couplers, but NO needle valves.



Ideas?



Thanks in advance!